Self-driving cars...

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Very plausible thoughts.... But if so, I'd suggest they put more time into public transport first. It would be a much simpler starting point. Light rail is yet to be automoted and they have their own tracks to keep to.

I'm far from expert on rail, but my understanding is that the most heavily used rail system in the USA, Amtrack, is heavily subsidized by the government because its passengers don't want to pay the actual cost of riding on it. That means someone else has to be taxed to make it a feasible mass transit system for those that use it. Most of our politicians are not keen on taxes, even those that many think are needed. The fact that those who pay the most taxes are among those who least use mass transit is one reason mass transit it a challenge for many communities.

[Joe's Garage]

Even more scary, your driverless car sends out a signal to DPI if it encounters a problem the on-board computer can't handle. DPI is Drone Pilots Inc.

[NewYorkGuy]

Skynet is coming.

[Buzz]

I can just picture an old cowboy looking suspiciously at a newspaper article about the new horseless carriages and asking the same type of questions.

- They can't get see or get spooked so how you gonna know if there's a rattlesnake in the barn?

- They can't duck for low hanging branches or jump over a fallen tree!

- How're you gonna train them to recognize their owner?

- If you have two of them will they be able to make little ones?

- If one wanders off how will it find its way home?

- Folks will loose their horse ridin' skills so how they gonna get around when them damn machines break down?

- ...

[REAL 1]

Skynet is not an impossibility in the far future. Who years ago would believe in driverless cars?

[Bernica]

Just require them to be painted bright safety orange so we all know where they are!

[Bernica]

Isn't there a country song called "Jesus take the wheel"?

[CompClassics]

Unfortunately we are on our way to the driverless pod, most manufacturers today don't offer manual transmissions. If anyone here is near a new free way that is being built or an existing freeway that is going through major modifications one of the things that is being incorporated in the structure are tubular objects (about a foot long) that are used in guiding "self driving" cars and keeping them on course, we are already witnessing cars that correct drivers inputs or lack of.

[Dangerous Doug]

Think of the reams of data Google will be able to collect with hundreds of thousands, if not millions of these SDC's running around. GPS data on movement, flow, and video everywhere these things go.

This data will be harvested and the results (if not the data itself) sold just as they currently do in their current business model.

As paranoid as this must sound, there has to be a monetary motive for spending all this cash on SDC development---and the money is in the data, and selling it.

DD

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug

.....As paranoid as this must sound,....
DD

Combining the theme of predicting the future with paranoia, let me add this observation to the mix. ... I recently noticed a city police car with a strange array of cameras on the rear deck. I realized it was one of those tag reading systems that relays pictures of the car tags of every car passed to a system that records the observation and compares the tags to those of interest to the police (e.g., stolen car). It makes it easier for police to spot and respond to tags of interest. ..... But that's not all.

Because the system records the tag number of EVERY car passed, it can also be used to retrieve a history of any tag of interest. For example, if a particular tag was used in a robbery, they could find out when and where the car with that tag was spotted before by the roving camera system. Again, it sounds like a good tool for police use, but that's not all.

The database of spotted tags must belong to someone. Let's presume it is the local police department. Now let's assume some enterprising business man approaches the city with an offer to buy its database. Always on the lookout for ways to increase revenues without increasing taxes, the city agrees. A few weeks later a new app appears offering customers the opportunity to see the travel history of any tag (for example, that of a suspected cheating spouse) for $49.95. If this app does not already exist, it will soon. ... But that's not all.

The same technology that allowed the police to scan tags in the first place will begin to show up along side well traveled roads. As the system reads the tag of a passing car, it identifies the likely driver, reviews their Google search history, and brings up an ad on an electronic billboard just as the car passes. I envision driving down an Interstate behind a big truck and seeing every sign advertise the nearest adult toy shop as it approaches. Then, it will swap to senior living communities as I approach. None of us will have many secrets then.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by Tommy

Combining the theme of predicting the future with paranoia, let me add this observation to the mix. ... I recently noticed a city police car with a strange array of cameras on the rear deck. I realized it was one of those tag reading systems that relays pictures of the car tags of every car passed to a system that records the observation and compares the tags to those of interest to the police (e.g., stolen car). It makes it easier for police to spot and respond to tags of interest. ..... But that's not all.

Because the system records the tag number of EVERY car passed, it can also be used to retrieve a history of any tag of interest. For example, if a particular tag was used in a robbery, they could find out when and where the car with that tag was spotted before by the roving camera system. Again, it sounds like a good tool for police use, but that's not all.

The database of spotted tags must belong to someone. Let's presume it is the local police department. Now let's assume some enterprising business man approaches the city with an offer to buy its database. Always on the lookout for ways to increase revenues without increasing taxes, the city agrees. A few weeks later a new app appears offering customers the opportunity to see the travel history of any tag (for example, that of a suspected cheating spouse) for $49.95. If this app does not already exist, it will soon. ... But that's not all.

The same technology that allowed the police to scan tags in the first place will begin to show up along side well traveled roads. As the system reads the tag of a passing car, it identifies the likely driver, reviews their Google search history, and brings up an ad on an electronic billboard just as the car passes. I envision driving down an Interstate behind a big truck and seeing every sign advertise the nearest adult toy shop as it approaches. Then, it will swap to senior living communities as I approach. None of us will have many secrets then.

Systems have been here for years. Data must be purged after 30 days and is illegal to transfer.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

Systems have been here for years. Data must be purged after 30 days and is illegal to transfer.

Just curious - is that a state by state law, or federal? If federal, can you point me to the statute?

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by Tommy

Just curious - is that a state by state law, or federal? If federal, can you point me to the statute?

I believe it's state, however, as it was adopted here there was a lot of conversation avbout a generally accepted uniform code of standars and practices. This is not new LE technology.

Do a search, there's a site that shows states,10-12, how long they can keep data, 20-150 days, and how it can or cannot be used.

[Dimis]

I'm reminded of this:

Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated: "If General Motors had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."

In response to Bill's comments, GM issued a press release stating: "If General Motors had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason, you would simply accept this.
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive -- but would run on only five percent of the roads.
6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "General Protection Fault" warning light.
7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
9. Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.


My computers has crashed twice today... thankfully my car hasn't

Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug

Think of the reams of data Google will be able to collect with hundreds of thousands, if not millions of these SDC's running around. GPS data on movement, flow, and video everywhere these things go.

This data will be harvested and the results (if not the data itself) sold just as they currently do in their current business model.

As paranoid as this must sound, there has to be a monetary motive for spending all this cash on SDC development---and the money is in the data, and selling it.

DD

Pretty sure they've already got this covered with mobile phones.

[Paul F]

A timely thread. 60 minutes has a story on this tonight.

Some points of the show:

1. Mercedes, Uber, Apple, and other car vendors all working in Silicon Valley on this.
2. Mercedes car has run 20K miles so far with no accident. A small number to be sure, but impressive.
3. During the driving demonstration on the streets and freeways of Silicon Valley, with the journalist, a few incidents happened where the car told the driver to take over.
4. Google has logged 1million miles.
5. The car understood the difference between a stopped car and a car stopping to parallel park. So it stopped behind the car space so the driver could parallel park.
6. Can't handle snow or rain.
7. Can't distinguish police hand gestures vs civilians hand waiving
8. Telsa has hands free highway driving today
9. Issues raised - Hacking - Drivers developing too much trust
10. Google built 25 fully automated cars with a max speed of 25 mph
11. Google cars have been in 9 minor accidents - Google claims they were all the other drivers fault
12. Google says it will accept all liability for its car's actions.
13. Asked when it will be available, the Google person says his goal is to have his 14 year old son own a driverless car in 4.5 years.

[Paul F]

The book 1984 scared a lot of people. But in a city, you are probably being recorded by a security camera most of the time you are in a commercial district. People in general, are not concerned. People completely expose their lives on facebook and are comfortable with it. So these things that were a concern for us in the past become pase' when they are actually implemented.

Fear of the unknown is common. But the youth does not have these fears. They easily adapt to the emerging technologies. The old people stagnate. So we'll drive our old manual car. The young people will leave us behind.

And be sure not to fly. The 28,000 flights flown in the US every day have no physical connection between the stick and the controls. It's all computers. Not only that, the pilot and first officer are largely along for the ride like you.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Paul F

The book 1984 scared a lot of people. But in a city, you are probably being recorded by a camera security camera most of the time you are in a commercial district. People in general, are not concerned. People completely expose their lives on facebook and are comfortable with it. So these things that were a concern for us in the past become pase' when they are actually implemented.

Fear of the unknown is common. But the youth does not have these fears. They easily adapt to the emerging technologies. The old people stagnate. So we'll drive our old manual car. The young people will leave us behind.

And be sure not to fly. The 28,000 flights flown in the US every day have no physical connection between the stick and the controls. It's all computers. Not only that, the pilot and first officer are largely along for the ride like you.

Thanks for that! Now I feel even older!!
I somehow keep thinking of the Orwell book though....

[fordracing65]

If they are going to have this technology, the cars better all go 200mph plus...

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Paul F

And be sure not to fly. The 28,000 flights flown in the US every day have no physical connection between the stick and the controls. It's all computers. Not only that, the pilot and first officer are largely along for the ride like you.

Well that's good to know, and may all well be true.... but surely those numbers pale into insignificance when compared to car trips... I mean I suspect most every passenger on each of those planes probably took a car to the airport.

Further, would you know by chance know how many times the pilot had to pull over because mid flight, your two year old needed to pee on the side of the road?

I'll admit that for those who "commute" on our roads, its probably a fair idea
But for those who like to drive... yikes... no thanks


My wife's car, has a "safety feature" where the seat belt sign binged and chimes instantly at you. I took her car to work this morning.... My darn seat belt was on!!! WTF...! then the penny dropped, my lunchbox was on the passage's seat.

Reminded me of this quote by Richard Cook - "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning". Also reminded me of why I like my bike, and my cobra!

[Bernica]

And now we have electronic controlled steering, which is worrisome to me.
Let alone the fact that if your battery goes dead while you are away for a while travelling and you recharge it, forget trying to get a smog check until you have driven it at least 50 miles to allow the computers to re calibrate. This I know first hand...