Hot Running Windsor based 427 FFR Roadster

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

... "learn how to spell dumbass"

That was one of the first words I learned how to spell.

[TButtrick]

Well you could write "dumbass" or "dumb-ass" hyphenated. The benefit of using "dumb-ass" hyphenated is that you can interject additional adjectives in between to further describe the noun. Here's an example:

You dumb, mother f***ing ass, you have no idea what the f**k you're talking about you dumb c**k sucking a**hole. Very effective.

[jhv48]

I'm lost, is this all about my frictionless Kia?

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by jhv48

I'm lost, is this all about my frictionless Kia?

Depends. Is it overheating?

[mrmustang]

Ok, let's go through the basics, and please answer as detailed as possible:

Does your lower radiator hose have a spring installed?
Which Ford water pump do you have?
Which pulley kit do you have?
Picture of how you have the belts routed.
What carburetor or fuel injection set up do you have installed?
What distributor do you have installed?
Which Spal fan?
Which gauges do you have?
Which senders for the gauges do you have?

We can go from there.


Bill S.

Originally Posted by rhunt

Just completed my FFR build with Ford Racing 427 Windsor. 6.5 miles on the odometer. All components are new. Std AFCO aluminum radiator with home built shroud and Spall fan. Puller fan. 160 deg F thermostat currently used, but have also tried no thermostat. No difference to max oil & water temps. Ford std. water pump with OD pulley. Used original Smiths electric water & oil temp gauges & sending units from my racing MG. Manifold location for water temp & oil pan location for oil temp. 50/50 water glycol with 2 cans of H2O Wetter. Ambient temps now 65 deg F in TX, water temp hits 210 deg F & oil temps hits 215-200 deg. Laser shot of radiator show about 180 deg F. All air burped out of system, 10 quarts of oil in engine, oil cooler and filter. This is way too hot for my liking especially when summer temps here will hit 95 to 100 deg F. Could both sending units be bad? Any opinions are appreciated.

[hinoonaz]

Wait a minute! What happened to the discussion about red velvet cake vs chocolate cake. I am a current and frequent member of weight watchers and want to know the rest of the story!

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by hinoonaz

Wait a minute! What happened to the discussion about red velvet cake vs chocolate cake. I am a current and frequent member of weight watchers and want to know the rest of the story!

Working on using the chocolate as a boundary layer between two layers of red velvet. If I can keep the big air pockets out the temps under control it should turn out great. Still not sure how the convection oven works as I hear that there is no airflow near the surface of my cake.



EDIT: Maybe it just needs a better fan.



And for those who think chocolate is the way to go. Please: No fake vs real, white vs dark chocolate debates.

[madmaxx]

I tried a reduction in profanity for last year New Years resolution, by noon on January 2nd I had given up...

Just a data point, I have owned three SPF with 427SBF. I live in the asshole of the US, which is Houston. One issue I had on the cooling systems on the SPF's were the cooling systems were so incredible efficient that I could not get my oil temperature above 160F with the oil cooler blocked on any day when the temperature was below 65F!! The only way I could get my water temp up to 185F was to buy the cheapest thermostat on the market that had zero by-pass when closed. Any bypass around the thermostat and my engine temp would stay at 170F. Once I installed a 192F thermostat i would run about 185F water temp. Remember the thermostat opens at it rated temperature but does not fully close until 10 degrees below it rated temperature!! So 192F doesn't close until 182F. Even when it was 98F out those cars would run 190F and unless I sat at a light for more than 3 cycles the cooling fans would never kick on. In fact I disconnected one fan so only one fan would kick on.

Don't know what your problem is, but if you are confident there is not any air in your system, duplicate the SPF set-up with same size radiator and you shouldn't have a cooling issue. My water pumps were stock pumps, cheap thermostat housing (would warp easy if overthightend) stock pulleys. All Roush engines.

Not a fan of Roush engines but I am a fan of their resale value. I wish I had every SPF I ever sold as they are worth more today than when I sold them and I made a profit on every one of them ignoring my labor (which is some cases was a lot, lol).

[Tom Wells]

Originally Posted by rhunt

Used original Smiths electric water & oil temp gauges & sending units from my racing MG.

Here's a bit of reading for you that may shed some light on your problem: Smiths Voltage Stabilizers - REVISED

Note particularly the section where it says "High Gauge Readings:"

Tom

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

Here's a bit of reading for you that may shed some light on your problem: Smiths Voltage Stabilizers - REVISED

Note particularly the section where it says "High Gauge Readings:"

Tom

Great post Tom. I learned something.

[Cobranut]

It's been a while snce I checked it, but iirc I run well over 20deg initial advance, and nearly 30 deg total, on my 427FE. It calms down the cam a bit, adds low end torque and throttle response, and runs cooler on the street.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Cobranut

It's been a while snce I checked it, but iirc I run well over 20deg initial advance, and nearly 30 deg total, on my 427FE. It calms down the cam a bit, adds low end torque and throttle response, and runs cooler on the street.

Do you mean 40 des total? It would be unusual to run a distributor with only 10 degrees (crank) centrifugal advance. Keith Craft recommended 40 deg total for my low compression motor but I'm running 15 initial and 37 total right now.

[Cobranut]

It may have been 40. It's been years since I adjusted it, as I've only driven it twice in the last two years, and would have to check my notes to be sure.
I know I did have to limit the centrifugal advance quite a bit so I could run more initial. Otherwise it would run hot, and the idle was a lot more lopey.
I run a Crane ignition control, which retards timing a bit during cranking, allowing for more initial advance.
My motor is 12.5:1 compression, and runs 110 octane race fuel.

Originally Posted by DanEC

Do you mean 40 des total? It would be unusual to run a distributor with only 10 degrees (crank) centrifugal advance. Keith Craft recommended 40 deg total for my low compression motor but I'm running 15 initial and 37 total right now.

[BOBOCobra]

What does the temp do when you are driving on the highway? Get it out when it is cool like this, get it on the highway, watch your temps before, during and after and report back. 210-215 is not going to damage much. Keep it below 225 and go for a ride in order to troubleshoot.

[madmaxx]

My base timing was 12 degrees initial and 34 all in. Something strange assuming your radiator is the correct size. I like the funnel idea, jam it in the radiator neck so when the thermostat opens it doesn't spill coolant everywhere.

[BOBOCobra]

Also, what is your crank pulley and WP pulley diameters?

[crawleyscobra]

Anyone think that a degas tank might help.

I believe I have the same motor as Rhunt and have the Forte Degas tank. I know it sure made burping the system a lot easier.

[jhv48]

So, what solved the problem?

[jhv48]

Here it is!


OK now have fixed hot running 427 Windsor. Heres what happened:
1.) checked and double checked and bled all air from cooling system. Rasied front of car and still had a small amount of air. 2.) Purchased 427 Surge tank from Cobra Restorers (CR) in GA and this has eliminated any air. Very nice component from CR , ecxcellent workmanship by Jimmy at CR!) Purchased laser temp. gun and verified temperatures were around 180 to 190 deg F with a 180 deg F thermostat. Still getting high gauge readings even after all this work on Smiths water and oil temp. gauges. Pull sending units and measured resistance at ambient and in boiling water against Smiths resistance values. Found both transducers were out of line with charts. Order two new transducers from Nisonger and decided also to replace my 30 year old Smith gauges with new stepper motor Smith gauges. Installed new transducer and gauges and all now works perfectly. Temperatures running now at 180 to 190 and when fan comes on the temp actually drops just like it should. Thanks to all for suggestions and ideas .... problem now solved.

[Dwight]

Thanks for post the solution. Most guys never post if they fixed the problem not. They leave everyone hanging. Problem no solution.

Thanks

Dwight