Any 427 FE owners regret not going for a small block stroker?

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Physics says a smaller stroke does make it rev faster BUT, how much will you notice on 1/8" difference in stroke on such a big engine?
Considering some builders say yes and others no, it would appear that the difference is negligible.

That was always my theory also - but now I have two long-stroke modular motors - a 5.4 blown Lightning pickup and a 5.0 Coyote motored Mustang GT. Both of them - particularly the 7k redlined Mustang rev like electric motors. My 4.25 inch stroke 428 with medium weight flywheel seems to be extremely responsive and rev-happy for a fairly mild motor. So now I'm not so sure. There is quite obviously more to it than just the length of the stroke.

[Bernica]

I am 4.25 x 4.25 with a 236 / 236 cam and 108 separation. Seems to work for me anyways.

[Bernica]

And aluminum flywheel, toploader and 3:31 gears...

[wkooiman]

I've had many 302/5.0 style engines and 2 different 428s.

Back in the day, there was no question between 302 or FE. There were no stroker cranks and Windsor heads were anemic. That has all changed with the plethora of parts we have these days.

Having said that, I wouldn't trade my FE for anything. The only negative of the FE is the cost. Parts cost more with an FE - not a lot more, but more.

[jcam]

I researched and purchased my car based on it reputation, correct details (appearance) and for it's improvements over the Cobras of years past. My car has been improved on many fronts while still maintaining it's original appeal. I believe, many of the improvements made to the modern Cobra replicas would have been used in the originals, if they were available. And, this goes for the engine, I believe Shelby would have used a modern SBF if he had them available to him. I have a 400+HP 351w now and plan to replace it with a 427 SBF in the near future. My reasons are simple, the badge says FORD 427, so I want a 427. I plan to track down the HP/Torque information from the original BB 427 engine and have a SB 427 built, if possible, to match it's performance while maintaining the advantages of the modern engines. I drive my car year round averaging 5-6k miles per year. For me this is the right thing to do. For others, bigger is better!

BTW...OP - it might be an act of treason to admit that you would trade your FE for a SBF!

My two cents...Now quit reading these post and go rev whatever engine you have.

Jamie

[LMH]

Originally Posted by jcam

I researched and purchased my car based on it reputation, correct details (appearance) and for it's improvements over the Cobras of years past. My car has been improved on many fronts while still maintaining it's original appeal. I believe, many of the improvements made to the modern Cobra replicas would have been used in the originals, if they were available. And, this goes for the engine, I believe Shelby would have used a modern SBF if he had them available to him. I have a 400+HP 351w now and plan to replace it with a 427 SBF in the near future. My reasons are simple, the badge says FORD 427, so I want a 427. I plan to track down the HP/Torque information from the original BB 427 engine and have a SB 427 built, if possible, to match it's performance while maintaining the advantages of the modern engines. I drive my car year round averaging 5-6k miles per year. For me this is the right thing to do. For others, bigger is better!

BTW...OP - it might be an act of treason to admit that you would trade your FE for a SBF!

My two cents...Now quit reading these post and go rev whatever engine you have.

Jamie

Shelby did use small block Fords and the majority of Cobra's were/are small blocks.
Larry

[rodneym]

You've all got it wrong.
It's small block Chevys you all should be driving.
That's the way Carroll wanted it.

[wkooiman]

Originally Posted by jcam

I believe Shelby would have used a modern SBF if he had them available to him.
Jamie

Maybe. But more likely, he would have used an all aluminum 482. Remember, this was the guy that sold a twin Paxton Cobra to Bill Cosby.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by AC Ventura

Just wondering. With so many and not just S/B owners saying 331/347 is the default choice for a balanced car, if there are any 427 FE owners out there who actually agree that the smaller motor is the better route.
Somehow, I doubt it but interested in what the real-life feedback actually is.
Alternatively any S/B owners who if they were to do it all again, would build in the big boy.

Let me start with a little history, for perspective. The Ford flat head V-8 was made from 1932 to 1953, a 21 year success story. The first OHV V-8 was the Y block in 1954. Although produced in trucks until 1964, the FE and SB Windsor engines replaced it in cars, years earlier. It had a short life. The FE engine was developed from the Y-block and still had Y-block DNA in it. The FE was made from 1958 to 1976. Starting life at 332 cid, the FE grew to 428 cid. In its short 18 year life span, it won many races of all types. The little 221 cid Small Block sprang onto the seen in 1961, grew to 302 cid, and was made until 2000. From it grew the 335 series 351C/400C and the 351W. They were taller deck larger displacement versions of this small block design. Arguably, with a 39 year life span this was the most successful Ford engine family to date. It too has claimed all types of race tittles. Likely more than the FE, do to its long history. The 385 series that replaced the FE, also enjoyed a long life from 1968-1997. A 29 year life span, undoubtedly cut short by the ever increasing government regulations, which also helped to kill the SB.

Now why do some engines have a shorter life span than others? Many factors come into play, but costs and needs pretty much covers the main factors. The reason the FE had such a short life was costs. It lacked nothing in terms of filling what Ford needed. The FE design is difficult to produce and assemble reliably, which is its problem to this day. It requires much more knowledge and talent to build than a Windsor SB. To this day you will spend much more money to build an FE. It is difficult to house break (it pisses oil on the garage floor). The probability of having to pull it down and fix something that was not assembled correctly is much higher, when compared to a SB.

Now the FE is by far, the most nostalgic engine, at least to the old dogs that remembers its glory days. It is a beautiful engine to lay eyes on. It lacks nothing in the power department. The sound is glorious. It is the engine that came in the 427 Shelby Cobra that we all love. No one, who has one in a Cobra, is ever going to say, I wish I had a small block instead. However after spending mega bucks and running into problems and having to spend more, and loosing ride time, I’m sure some unlucky people have questioned if it was worth it. Some have sold their car, disillusioned. Most do not run into problems, just higher costs.

That said a 351W stroked to 391, 408, 427 costs less to build. By simplicity of design, it is less likely to have a problem. It is lighter than a FE, and can make similar power. Logically it is a better choice to build, if all you care about is numbers and logic. Performance per dollar, it is a great choice. It will never have the nostalgic value of the FE. But how do you measure nostalgia and put a value on it?

Similarly the 385 series engine is a great design. Dollar per Hp, it cannot be beat. It is heavy. It takes magic mirrors and special shoe horns to fit it into a Cobra, but it is done. The one I road in was the most amazing ride of my life, but it still is not an FE.

Bottom line: It’s a personal choice. What’s it worth to you?

PS
For those of us that do not race or auto cross (just ride for fun), there really is no need for a SB. I suspect most of us would love to have a 427 SO, if there was no cost difference. Heck I'd go for a cammer if it was free. I think if we are honest, most SB owners will say "I have a SB because the FE just wasn't worth the cost to me, but I would love to have one, if the price was right." If I hit the lottery, I will drop a 482 FE into a Kirkham. No doubt in my mind.

[Dangerous Doug]

I'm very happy with my KC 331 in my 289 FIA, and at times I think it's a bit much for regular street driving. It's pretty awesome.

However, I had an opportunity to drive a 427 SO powered Shelby Cobra, and it was AWESOME. Firing it up, it sounded like a biplane, too loud, too obnoxious, too powerful, and SO intoxicating. I loved it. What an adrenaline rush.

My 331 stroker seemed docile after that.

I drive my 331 Cobra frequently, and am glad I have the small block. It's plenty powerful for street driving, and really, I probably could have installed a Ford Racing 302 and called it good. Driving the 427 SO was over-the-top awesome, so I find it hard to think anyone would regret that choice. But, I don't regret my 331, either.

DD

[Kit Coyle]

I agree with Doug. I love the 289 FIA body style and have since I saw them
race in the 60s. I personally never cared for the 427 Cobra body style from
an artistic viewpoint. I have close to 400hp with the Boss 302 in my ERA,
which pretty much replicates what the originals had for power, and it is quite
enough for the street. If I had a 427 then I would want similar power and
torque to the original 60s spec. engine. For me the idea is to replicate the
look and feel of an original Cobra. No matter how much $$ we throw at these
cars, they are still replicas. If we could have a pit lane with a variety of
real and replica Cobras, all with different engine specs, and the ability to drive
each one in sequence around a track, then we would know which we liked
best! Wouldn't that be fun. In the end, I think they would be variations on a
theme! I like the theme!

[SHTMDWN PA]

Nothing beats the ground pounding, heart stopping thump of an original 427 SO. The Webbers are he cherry on top.

RodKnock, have you looked at the Chambered Classic pipes for Cobras?
"Purred like a kitten til the lake pipes roared."
Classic Chambered Exhaust Inc. - Home Page

[Joe's Garage]

Best of both worlds, 427w

[Dangerous Doug]

One thing to consider, especially if rude people can get under your skin:

If you have a "427 Cobra" and you don't have a 427SO, or 428PI under the hood you'll have to deal with parking lot trolls (as they get out of their '84 Tercels) dissing your Cobra because you don't have an FE engine.

As if...

I escape this nonsense in that the 289/302 block is "correct" for my 289 FIA.

DD

[AC Ventura]

Okay guys.

Thanks everyone for you input. My minds been made up. I'm going to do what I can to get the 427 FE into my car. I think ir really because it's a 427 bodied car and to me, that what belongs inside the engine bay. As many of you alluded to it's about the legend and well, despite the extra work, this must be the only route I think.

The engine can be heard running and I am going to get it professionally appraised. Here's the spec and my application is intended only for the street.

Can anybody see any glaring holes here?

Thanks in advance guys


1968 FORD 427 SIDE OILER, HYDRAULIC LIFTER, STANDARD BORE, BALANCED ENGINE.
BUILD DATE NUMBERS 8CG E1
OIL PRESSURE, 55-60 LBS AT IDLE.
BLOCK HONED TO .008.
NEW 9.8-1 PISTONS [RUNS EXCELLENT ON PUMP GAS}
COMP. CAM 33-230-4 280 H
CRANK 93M FE 98 W/SCREW IN OIL JOURNAL PLUGS.
FLUID DAMPER HBF.
COMP. PUSH RODS # 7533
-MILODAN COMPETITION OIL PAN.
-MELLING HEAVY DUTY HIGH VOLUME OIL PUMP.
-DOUBLE ROLLER TIMING CHAIN.
-EDELBROCK PERFORMANCE RPM INTAKE W/ MATCHING HEADS.
ACCEL DISTRIBUTOR # 71200E
-MSD IGNITION
-FEL PRO HEAD GASKETS.
HOLLEY 650 DOUBLE PUMPER CARB.
COBRA LEMANS VALVE COVERS.
-EDELBROCK ALUMINUM WATER PUMP.
DUAL REMOTE OIL FILTERS.
-ARP BOLT KIT.
-FLYWHEEL INCLUDED.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by AC Ventura

Okay guys.

Thanks everyone for you input. My minds been made up. I'm going to do what I can to get the 427 FE into my car.

Well, I'm glad I played a role in your decision. I'll have to add you to the LONG list, including the majority of my family members, who also don't listen to me.

You're going to miss that anemic small block.

[Detroit Bill]

Sounds good what about the rocker arms, intake manifold? I would ask for a projected HP also.

[AC Ventura]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Sounds good what about the rocker arms, intake manifold? I would ask for a projected HP also.

Well as stated it says Edlbrock RPM intake. All I know about the lifters is that it says hydraulic, but appraisal will see about that. Owner say feels like 500hp but never been tested. I'm not too bothered about extreme power. It's the motor itself and sound that's the thing. Standard 425hp/480ft lbs will suit me fine, if motor is in good shape.

[blykins]

Nowhere close to 500 hp with that combo.....especially the carburetor that belongs on a 302.

[DanEC]

The cam is a bit tame also -- but only if horsepower is a key goal. At 230 @.050 it will have a bit of a lope at idle but would be pretty easy to drive on the street overall. I have slightly more duration and lift in my cam with 459 cubes, steel heads, dual 600 Holleys, and a little less compression. My motor made 485 hp @ 5400. In a bit smaller engine I would guess your peak is also somewhere around 5400 to 5500 rpm. That leaves quite a bit of room if you want more power. A bit bigger cam and carb would probably perk the engine up considerably.