Engine Option (Just For Discussion)

[blykins]

That would be a kit car.

[Thor maine]

News Flash, that CSX you buy from Shelby American is a Kit Car. So is the that Kirkham (highest quality) kits. And so is that Superformance, and ERA, FF5, and so on and so on.

[twin turbo]

I never cared for the sound of the Viper engine, sounded like a delivery truck to me. Perhaps with an aftermarket exhaust it sounds better?

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

News Flash, that CSX you buy from Shelby American is a Kit Car. So is the that Kirkham (highest quality) kits. And so is that Superformance, and ERA, FF5, and so on and so on.

Even some of the guys with the most trained eyes can't discern between new CSX and Kirkham cars and the originals....they just look newer. But underneath, they are exactly replicas, as I mentioned above.

There are also other degrees of replicating, as demonstrated by the other manufacturers.

When you get into, "a HotRod that is shaped like a Cobra.... With a giant asphalt ripping engine of what ever flavor you like".......then you start getting into this:



Like I said, if you want a replica, build a replica. If you want a kit car, build a kit car.

[Thor maine]

My poor boy a "replica" will never be the genuine article, no matter how much you want or try or make it to be!

[NewYorkGuy]

They re called replicas because calling them Kit cars cheapens the value of the cobra hobby business. Manufacturers and engine builders gotta eat.
Anyways, this post should stay on target, about Kraft engines. They are new ownership, leadership.

[Thor maine]

Good Point! Keith Craft does engines to the highest quality. Also if you look at his site along with Ford engines he also does Big Block and Small Block (strokers of all sizes) GM Chevy engines.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by blykins

Even some of the guys with the most trained eyes can't discern between new CSX and Kirkham cars and the originals....they just look newer. But underneath, they are exactly replicas, as I mentioned above.

There are also other degrees of replicating, as demonstrated by the other manufacturers.

When you get into, "a HotRod that is shaped like a Cobra.... With a giant asphalt ripping engine of what ever flavor you like".......then you start getting into this:



Like I said, if you want a replica, build a replica. If you want a kit car, build a kit car.

The issue with this line of thinking is that people would take an abomination like the above and put a gen-you-whine Ferrari steering wheel in or even an engine from an old Dino and huff and puff that it's better or more real than a superbly executed, dimensionally and proportionally correct recreation with an American V8.
It's just blind brand loyalty speaking when folks think a stretched wheelbase, awful looking, live axle kit car with an FE is more of a Cobra than a beautiful, accurate looking replica with IRS and a brand X powertrain.
Its a noble and admirable hobby when an owner painstakingly recreates original details on his replica, but its just ridiculous to pontificate that a mishapen heap with a stroked windsor and dual rollbars is "better" than another kit car because it has a Chevy mill.
Shelby had no brand loyalty whatsoever. He went with whatever deal suited him best at the time. If you're a blind follower of some marketing department's koolaid - then fine, but why care so much when others make different choices??

Having said all that, I really like FE's and well executed details in nicely done Cobra replicas - definitely the most desirable way to go for a 427 replica. I also like the easy power of 385 series engines and while I appreciate the Coyote, I just find it way too big and bulky for its displacement. I like windsor strokers and I love the look of the AC MK VI with its sleek body, modern interior and LS powerplant. I suppose I'm more obsessed with the look and "spirit" of the Cobra than its (debatable) brand heritage.
At the moment, for me the ultimate engine build for an old-school looking replica would be an alloy Dart or other aftermarket Ford-based big block with +/ - 600 HP, stack EFI, beefy internals and good street manners.

[Thor maine]

Well said Buzz.

[blykins]

No, my point was that you can absolutely have a replica if that's what you want. The definition of replica is an exact copy. And no, it's not the original, but there again, that's not the definition of *replica*. There are absolutely exact copies out there of factory 60's Cobras. They don't have viper or Chevy engines.

If that's what you want then that's fine. If you want something else then that's fine too, but by definition, it's not a replica.

[blykins]

Buzz, I hear that argument a lot: that Shelby went to different engine manufacturers, thought about using different engines, etc., but the fact of the matter is that the engine that ended up in the original cars were Fords. And if you really wanna get picky....it's either a 289, a 427, a 428, or in one case....a 390.

That's the point that I keep trying to make....you can have your car any way that you want. However, if you want to make it true to the original, you can replicate it to the point where no one could tell the difference. If you want to use other engine families, or stretch the wheelbase, or this and that....then don't get your feelings hurt because your car is labeled as a "kit car". The general public sees that as the same as the '86 Fiero with a Lambo body kit, or a VW disguised as a Porsche.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by blykins

... There are absolutely exact copies out there of factory 60's Cobras ...

Ok, I'll bite - point out one that is an "exact copy" of a 60's cobra.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by blykins

And if you really wanna get picky....it's either a 289, a 427, a 428, or in one case....a 390.

Don't forget the little 260 that started it all

[blykins]

Joe, that's not a hard thing to do buddy....

Check out Computerworks' car.

This isn't difficult.....I bet there are 20-30 on Club Cobra alone. Find a continuation series CSX or a Kirkham, with a painted aluminum body, skip the fancy billet stuff, put an FE in it with a Toploader.

Easy.

[moore_rb]

I LOVE this forum....

Start a thread about engines... It descends to "real vs replica"

Start a thread about Billboard tires... Nope, it's now about real versus replica.

Mirrors? Real versus replica...

Seats? Real versus replica

Stripes versus no stripes? Nope- It's Real stripes, versus replica stripes

Kirkham versus Shelby Continuation? Real Chicken versus replica egg (or, real egg versus replica chicken... )

Side pipes versus undercar exhaust? Real versus replica

Boxers versus Briefs? Real versus replica.

Ford versus Chevy (or versus Dodge v10 )? Real versus replica.

Ginger versus MaryAnn? Real versus replica.

Real boobs versus Silicone? Real versus replica (hmmmm, wait a minute, Maybe that's a VALID "real" versus "replica" discussion )



I LOVE this forum...

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by blykins

Joe, that's not a hard thing to do buddy....

Check out Computerworks' car.

This isn't difficult.....I bet there are 20-30 on Club Cobra alone. Find a continuation series CSX or a Kirkham, with a painted aluminum body, skip the fancy billet stuff, put an FE in it with a Toploader.

Easy.

Wrong, read the SAI description, you'll see even they say the 289 and 427 are still produced today
using improved materials and components. Same applies to Kirkham ...

... ergo, not an "exact" copy of a 60's cobra.

[blykins]

Oh please.

The fact of the matter is, there are *new* Cobras, that if they were parked right beside of the restored original that they were copying, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I guess if you wanted to ask the owners to remove the bodies from the frames, cut a section of the frame tube off and send it to a lab to check if the steel was the same alloy, then you could see a difference.........ROFL

Then there are Cobras that if you parked them besides the originals, it would be night/day difference. Just like that Fiero and the Lamborghini.

Again, not saying that there is anything wrong with that.....you want what you want. But this does, in fact, go back to Lance's original post....the engine plays a very big role in how accurate that replica is. Most of my customers want FE's and SBF's. I do build Chevy engines (not many), but not once have I been asked to build a Chevy engine for a Cobra. Besides, everyone knows that you can go to Walmart and buy a SBC......

[Bernica]

I suppose one could ask Lance or Brent to build an EXACT FE engine, sourcing all OEM parts right down to the rod bolts and ignore the improvements that have been made over the past 40+ years, but then what do you have? And would you be satisfied knowing that you ignored all those improvements?

Like I said earlier, "whatever lights your pipes!"

[Joe's Garage]

You said "exact copy" I didn't. The fact is there is no exact copy of a 60's cobra out there, only varying degrees of replication. I expect the list of improved components used by Kirkham and SAI is not trivial and could be ID'd simply by popping the hood or a close look in the cockpit.

BTW, your analogy of "replica" vs. "kit car" is a false argument. These cars are not sold complete and need to be finished by the buyer and then registered following special DMV provisions for kit cars/component cars. They ARE kit cars, every last damn one of them. True, some do a better job at getting closer to the mark than others but that does not make it not a kit car. Believe the seller/marketing hype if you like, but it has no foundation in truth.

[blykins]

Strain a gnat and swallow a camel.....

You know what the general population considers to be a "kit car" and I do too.