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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2016, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cobrakiwi View Post
Cool, I bet the engine in your car has been running much better!

Thanks for the feed back.
Yes, it's amazing how much better an engine runs when it doesn't have a constant stream of debris from a deteriorating fuel cell bladder clogging things up!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2016, 03:42 PM
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More tanks before Xmas!
This is the start of one of my large tanks for the 427 car.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2016, 03:27 PM
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More time on fuel tanks, welding in this cold weather is nice
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2016, 05:28 PM
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That's an incredible job. Truly impressive
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2016, 12:16 PM
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That's an incredible job. Truly impressive
Thanks,

This one is all set to ship to it's new home, I believe it is going into a csx 4k car.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2016, 04:51 PM
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Hello Craig, Nice workmanship may I ask what gage aluminum are you using? and the is it 3003 H 14? Thank You and thank you for sharing your work it helps in many ways. and it is great to see someone that really takes the time to devote great detail
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2018, 12:25 PM
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Here I am putting together a stainless fuel tank, this one is the smaller tank.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2018, 12:15 PM
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Question Fuel tank question?

Iím building a fuel tank for one of my car projects, a Lamborghini Miura. Iím a first time fuel tank builder and am hoping someone can help provide some information.

The tank is made of .063 aluminum (5052 grade I think), is cut and bent but not yet welded together. Iím not concerned with the welding as I can do that. Hereís a picture of the tank. The odd shape is because the Miura is a transverse mid-engine and this fuel tank is located under the dash and down the chassis middle between the seats.



Iíd like to use an in-tank fuel pump if feasible. My most basic question is how best to get the power wires through the tank in a leak free way?

Expanding on that, Iím guess some sort of access hatch is needed in order to service the fuel pump and pickup if/when required. Is there an aftermarket fuel tank hatch like this available? Something with the power wires, fuel lines (outgoing and return) are plumbed, fasteners and gasket engineered to stay leak free. If so, where do I find such a thing?

Also, where should I locate the hatch? My gut is to locate on top of the tall portion of the tank to minimize the gravity related fuel pressure against it. The downside of this is it complicates locating the fuel pickup in the middle of the tank (to minimize low fuel starvation under acceleration/braking) and will result in longer fuel lines than otherwise.

A simpler location is on the lower portion of the tank in the middle. This would simplify fuel pickup location and internal plumbing as thatís between the internal tank baffles. The downside is there would be gravity related fuel pressure on the sealing surface until the top 1/3 or so of the tank is emptied.

The car will be powered by a Coyote V8 with an 8 stack Weber style EFI. I think this means a return fuel line will be required but Iím not certain on that point.

Or should I just keep is simple as possible and use an external fuel pump? The back of the tank is only about 1 foot from the engine. Part of the desire for in-tank pump is to keep it clear of heat, etc. and because the engine compartment will be very tight. If external pump, then my only concerns would be related to the fuel level sending unit.

I guess what Iím really asking here is if an access hatch and bunch of through tank fittings can be effectively sealed against gravity fuel pressure. The tank will be removable from bottom of the car but I donít want to be doing that as the engine coolant, heater, and A/C lines run under it. So a major hassle if thereís a leak down the road.

I know this is a non-Cobra application but I know from being a Cobra guy myself, you guys have a broad set of automotive experience.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2018, 08:50 PM
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Question

I went searching some more on the Internet after making the post above. I found this in-tank fuel pump option from Aeromotive.

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/produc...h-fuel-system/

It looks like it might work for my fuel tank application. Has anyone had any experience with one of these? If so, how'd it work for you. Any trouble with gas leaks around the top where it goes in the tank?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2018, 05:57 AM
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Since this is inside the cabin of the car I would not rely on any fitting other that hard metal pipe. This means external fuel pump. It adds complexity and requires space, but a surge tank and jockey pump would be a nice addition. Fuel starvation with an EFI pump is a real problem. You lose fuel pressure and pump prime and the engine is dead until prime and pressure are regained, then you'll likely have a hiccup when the bubble makes it to the injectors.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2018, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luce View Post
Since this is inside the cabin of the car I would not rely on any fitting other that hard metal pipe. This means external fuel pump. It adds complexity and requires space, but a surge tank and jockey pump would be a nice addition. Fuel starvation with an EFI pump is a real problem. You lose fuel pressure and pump prime and the engine is dead until prime and pressure are regained, then you'll likely have a hiccup when the bubble makes it to the injectors.
Thanks for the reply and sorry I gave a misleading description on the tank location. It is not actually inside the cabin. It does run between the seats but the car has a "high backbone" aluminum chassis that covers the fuel tank. So there's 1/4" aluminum sheet between the fuel tank and the cabin. There is no exposure between the tank and cabin.



I'm very familiar with EFI, fuel sloshing and then fuel starvation. I had that issue in my Cobra for a long time before finally finding a solution for it. This is why I'd like to find a in-tank pump solution for the Miura.

Does the additional information change your answer?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2018, 04:02 AM
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With a tank mounted up inside the tunnel like that, I would run an external pump.
If there is ever a pump problem, way less work to repair.
I don't see having an access panel from the top side will be roadworthy, with a module internal pump.
You certainly can't mount a pump assembly like that lower than fuel level, as in your case with a third of the volume above the pump.
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Last edited by Gaz64; 08-08-2018 at 10:58 PM..
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2018, 06:58 AM
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Joel,

Although I am very impressed with your build, I don't have any input to offer beyond what has already been said. But, I am very curious about the piece of blue machinery sitting next to the car. Can you enlighten me a little.

Thanks

Ted
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2018, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Shootnride View Post
Joel,

Although I am very impressed with your build, I don't have any input to offer beyond what has already been said. But, I am very curious about the piece of blue machinery sitting next to the car. Can you enlighten me a little.

Thanks

Ted
There's actually 2 blue colored machines there both of which I built. One is an English Wheel. The other is an Air Power Hammer.



The power hammer is my goto machine for metal shaping operations. It uses tooling from TM Technologies -Kent White who you might recognize as a metal shaping guru. The power hammer shrinks, stretches, and more. It and the English Wheel will get lots of use while I'm making the aluminum body for the Miura.

Miura build diary here: Modern-day Miura
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2018, 08:12 AM
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C5GTO,

I have the Aeromotive 340 in-tank unit in my 1981 Mercury Zephyr wagon. I went for the larger pump because it has a 557.

The wagon has more than 15K street and track miles without any hiccups. And I am familiar with EFI fuel problems caused by uncovering the pickup.

The 24 hour Rolex course at Daytona did not cause any problems during the four track days I ran there last year.

The Cobra is another, older, story. The Aeromotive setups were not around 15 years ago or it would have one also. Starvation occurred in that car even on an interstate when negotiating curves at legal speeds.

The answer to that one was to construct a "box" about 8" on a side below the floor of the tank, putting a piece of perforated aluminum at its top. The pickup is located near the bottom of the box. It was the result of an old drag racer's trick of putting the pickup at the bottom rear of the tank; this box kinda moved that idea to a 3-D version. The pump itself is external.

The "box" has been run 38K miles on the street and many, many track days including Sebring and Daytona among others and nary a burp.

HTH,

Tom
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wells View Post
C5GTO,

I have the Aeromotive 340 in-tank unit in my 1981 Mercury Zephyr wagon. I went for the larger pump because it has a 557.

The wagon has more than 15K street and track miles without any hiccups. And I am familiar with EFI fuel problems caused by uncovering the pickup.

The 24 hour Rolex course at Daytona did not cause any problems during the four track days I ran there last year.

The Cobra is another, older, story. The Aeromotive setups were not around 15 years ago or it would have one also. Starvation occurred in that car even on an interstate when negotiating curves at legal speeds.

The answer to that one was to construct a "box" about 8" on a side below the floor of the tank, putting a piece of perforated aluminum at its top. The pickup is located near the bottom of the box. It was the result of an old drag racer's trick of putting the pickup at the bottom rear of the tank; this box kinda moved that idea to a 3-D version. The pump itself is external.

The "box" has been run 38K miles on the street and many, many track days including Sebring and Daytona among others and nary a burp.

HTH,

Tom
Hmmm...now you have me thinking

Maybe I can add a shallow sump at the bottom rear of the tank, with a lid that traps the fuel from escaping on braking. It would be filled in low fuel condition by acceleration when the fuel sloshed rearward in the tank. The tank is narrow, about 10 inches wide so cornering shouldn't cause a sloshing issue for fuel in the sump. If the pickup and return lines are both plumbed to the sump then return fuel should also ensure the sump has fuel.

I'll have to fit the tank up into the chassis to check if there will be space for this type sump with all the coolant, heater, and A/C lines running under the tank. Even a 3/4" deep sump might be enough to do the trick.

Tom: in case a sump isn't possible, I have a Aeromotive in-tank pump question for you. Is the top of your in-tank unit always above the fuel level? Or is there fuel sitting against the seal when the tank is full? If the later, have you noticed any leakage at all?
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:39 AM
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Joel,

If the Aeromotive installation "wept" I wouldn't know: the tank is up against the rear floor within about an inch so I can't lay eyes on it. No gasoline aromas, so maybe that's a good sign.

Here's the PDF for the install: https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/wp-con...8809-0revE.pdf

Maybe you can get some ideas there. It does have a heckuva gasket that I hope is fuel resistant and no aroma of fumes happens in the garage after several years.

My sump for the external pump in the Cobra is about 3" plus/minus deep - memory may not be accurate and the car is in the paint shop (don't ask). The top of the sump is perforated so the gasoline must take a bit of time to exit if it tries.

Each works fine for me in its respective car, so I think it's your choice.

Tom

PS: Here are a few pictures of the Zephyr gas tank install for the Aeromotive pump: Zephyr fuel pump & tank for EFI - FirstCoastCobraClub
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Last edited by Tom Wells; 08-08-2018 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:33 AM
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I'm switching my carb to a EFI stacked system on my new 428, and although the Aeromotive 340 is expensive, it's a very nice. But not bad at $500.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2018, 08:45 PM
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Craig, curious on the cost for a 427 tank ?
Nice work by the way.
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Old 03-23-2020, 12:24 PM
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Adding to the mix, gas tank for a 289 car.
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