A.C. Cars Ltd. looking for info

cobrakiwi · #1 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

How you interpret Bill's words is your interpretation, it's certainly not mine. Bill is trying to help and he calls them as he sees them. He's blunt.

Two facts are known.

1. The car is stamped with a COB number. And it's not a COB. Describe it as you will, but as long as it retains that invalid COB # it can be passed off as a fraud, maybe not with the OP, but potentially some other owner in the future. There are plenty of examples of cars with invalid COB for CSX numbers in the Registry, two owners claiming the same COB or CSX number, etc.

So as long as this Cobra retains that COB number it represents the potential for fraud. That's the bottom line.

2. No one here has been able to determine the manufacturer of origin. IMO, the workmanship is well below that of a Kirkham/CSX and the body of the Kirkham/CSX and the OP's car have obvious differences.

Its also my interpretation Bill is wrong yet again on this one,

(Kimmin's built)

Yes he is blunt,

help? Not what I would call it

I think there has been a few people here point out more than enough points to determine the origin of the body/frame.

Workmanship looks great, one of the better ones I have seen

Fraud? Sorry I don't see it!

RodKnock · #2 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Its also my interpretation Bill is wrong yet again on this one,

(Kimmin's built)

Yes he is blunt,

help? Not what I would call it

I think there has been a few people here point out more than enough points to determine the origin of the body/frame.

Workmanship looks great, one of the better ones I have seen

Fraud? Sorry I don't see it!

That's hilarious because I haven't seen any evidence that would identify any manufacturer of origin. It certainly lacks any Kirkham #'s.

If it's got an AC badge with a fake COB # on it and the fake COB # is stamped on the car, then it's looking a lot like a fraud to me.

Funny how people can have two different opinions based upon very little fact.

cobrakiwi · #3 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

That's hilarious because I haven't seen any evidence that would identify any manufacturer of origin. It certainly lacks any Kirkham #'s.

If it's got an AC badge with a fake COB # on it and the fake COB # is stamped on the car, then it's looking a lot like a fraud to me.

Funny how people can have two different opinions based upon very little fact.

Kimmin's built,

Hilarious right?

Well you know what they say about opinions,

RodKnock · #4 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Kimmin's built,

Hilarious right?

Well you know what they say about opinions,

Until Bill mentioned the name Kimmins, I honestly had never heard of them. I haven't seen one of their Cobras posted here.

Let's assume for the moment that the OP's car is a Kirkham, then a previous owner went through the process of eliminating any Kirkham serial/VIN numbers and then make the decision to add an AC plate and stamp COB #'s in a few places? From my side of the peanut of gallery that sounds like the beginnings of a deception to me.

cobrakiwi · #5 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Until Bill mentioned the name Kimmins, I honestly had never heard of them. I haven't seen one of their Cobras posted here.

Let's assume for the moment that the OP's car is a Kirkham, then a previous owner went through the process of eliminating any Kirkham serial/VIN numbers and then make the decision to add an AC plate and stamp COB #'s in a few places? From my side of the peanut of gallery that sounds like the beginnings of a deception to me.

Ding, Ding, Ding,

I think you may be getting warmer!

RodKnock · #6 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Ding, Ding, Ding,

I think you may be getting warmer!

So, you're calling the OP a fraud? Wow, that's kinda rough. If you're planning to sell parts to the OP, then that may hurt your business prospects.

Do you see any evidence that the Kirkham serial numbers were all removed/ground off/acid dipped?

And the only problem with that theory is that it doesn't look like a Kirkham/CSX to me and the thickness of the radiator opening/mouth area is just one difference. And blaming it on a "camera angle" is a convenient excuse to fit your narrative.

As has been mentioned before, all the OP has to do is send the pictures to Kirkham and I'm sure they'll be happy to determine if the OP's car is indeed a Kirkham. Their customer service is excellent.

cycleguy55 · #7 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

So, you're calling the OP a fraud? Wow, that's kinda rough. If you're planning to sell parts to the OP, then that may hurt your business prospects.

I don't see any allegation the OP is a fraudster. The OP is not the original owner of the car. Any work to remove Kirkham traces and replace them with COB markings, assuming that's what actually happened, may well have happened prior to purchase of the car by OP. Further, if OP performed the aforementioned subterfuge, why would he raise it in a forum visited by those with expertise very likely to uncover his misdeeds?

FWIW, I believe OP's story in buying the car as he has described, and he came here legitimately seeking answers.

cobrakiwi · #8 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

So, you're calling the OP a fraud? Wow, that's kinda rough. If you're planning to sell parts to the OP, then that may hurt your business prospects.

No Sir,

Wow lots of assumptions,

Do you see any evidence that the Kirkham serial numbers were all removed/ground off/acid dipped?

No, none that I can see,:

Some people do good work!

And the only problem with that theory is that it doesn't look like a Kirkham/CSX to me and the thickness of the radiator opening/mouth area is just one difference. And blaming it on a "camera angle" is a convenient excuse to fit your narrative.

Great, your opinion is loud and clear!

As has been mentioned before, all the OP has to do is send the pictures to Kirkham and I'm sure they'll be happy to determine if the OP's car is indeed a Kirkham. Their customer service is excellent.

I agree, Great people.

cobrakiwi · #9 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 01:05 PM

[quote=RodKnock;1406353]So, you're calling the OP a fraud? Wow, that's kinda rough.

Just to be clear!
No Sir, I am not accusing the op or any body of fraud!

Let me ask you the same,
are you accusing the op with fraud?

1ntCobra · #10 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Until Bill mentioned the name Kimmins, I honestly had never heard of them. I haven't seen one of their Cobras posted here.

Let's assume for the moment that the OP's car is a Kirkham, then a previous owner went through the process of eliminating any Kirkham serial/VIN numbers and then make the decision to add an AC plate and stamp COB #'s in a few places? From my side of the peanut of gallery that sounds like the beginnings of a deception to me.

Kimmins was an early supplier of csx4000 aluminum bodied cars prior to Shelby getting involved with Kirkham. Just taking a quick look at the SAAC registry the other day I noticed that Kimmins bought a 289 chassis only from Kirkham. I suppose I should have checked if they purchased other chassis from Kirkham.

RodKnock · #11 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Kimmins was an early supplier of csx4000 aluminum bodied cars prior to Shelby getting involved with Kirkham. Just taking a quick look at the SAAC registry the other day I noticed that Kimmins bought a 289 chassis only from Kirkham. I suppose I should have checked if they purchased other chassis from Kirkham.

So, that doesn't rule out the possibility that the OP's Cobra was made by Kimmins, as Bill said, since Kimmins was an early supplier to Shelby?