Cobra Country looks like a sale board for Superformance

[sea2jet]

Anyone looking for a Superformance sure has a large assortment of used cars to pick from. Nice cars. I wish there were as many Kirkham's For sale, LOL...

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by sea2jet

Anyone looking for a Superformance sure has a large assortment of used cars to pick from. Nice cars. I wish there were as many Kirkham's For sale, LOL...

Well let's see....SPF has sold about 3500 cars and Kirkham has sold "Xxx" so the law of percentages says more Superformance cars will be for sale. How many Honda Civics are for sale in your local paper?

[Tim7139]

About a dozen in the last month, everything from 1500 to 38000 miles. Lots more over a short span than I can recall. Only thing I'd deduce, we're coming to the end of driving season.
My favorite, however, is the guy asking $60 grand for a really lovely car but won't throw in the $30 safety wire pliers.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by sea2jet

Anyone looking for a Superformance sure has a large assortment of used cars to pick from.

You'll notice one dealer attempting to "make the market", it might work if it was not for all the other sites and dealer/private owners selling SPF's


Just my take on the listings

[sea2jet]

I'm assuming the large used market will force prices lower. I just wish the Kirkham car prices would follow suit. Fat chance.

[66gtk]

I've seen some good Kirkhams this year advertised in the $110k-120k range (and many more in the 130-160 range), but I haven't seen any below 6 figures for quite some time now. I would like to have one some day, but not at 2x the price of an similarly equipped and condition ERA. On the other hand, I'd rather have an equally nice KMP for the same price as a 'glass CSX. (:

And yes, things over at CC seemingly have changed quite a bit in the past 15-24 months in regards to the number of privately owned Cobras listed for sale - especially when they aren't an SPF listed by the opposite of a flat-straight.

How many cans of worms did I just open now...

[spdbrake]

I'm wondering if they feel they should bail before the market gets diluted.

SPF typ produces around 150 cars a year and now can ramp up to 325 cars turn-key. No need for rollers.
I'm sure the other manufacturers are going to sell more as well.
Superformance | News
Superformance Shelby Daytona Test Drive | Fox News

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by spdbrake

I'm wondering if they feel they should bail before the market gets diluted.

SPF typ produces around 150 cars a year and now can ramp up to 325 cars turn-key. No need for rollers.
I'm sure the other manufacturers are going to sell more as well.
Superformance | News
Superformance Shelby Daytona Test Drive | Fox News

I think you will find the market for the "turn-key" EPA certified cars to be well less an 325. Most want some sort of "old tech" V8 with a carb atop the manifold. The certifed "Coyote" car market will be there, but not at that level. The advantage to the certified cars will ease of registration and more available financing options (walk into a bank and ask for a loan for a "roller" on a chassis that does not have a WMI VIN and watch the banker's face!) as well the ability for a dealer to possibly "floor plan" the car for inventory.

It will be a new market, but not a gold rush as some have predicted.

[1795]

I would concur with Rick in that the market will be less than EPA allows. As Rick said, there is the not having a V8 powered by the standard 4 barrel carb issue that will turn some people off. In addition, they are going to be price prohibitive. At about $200K for a Daytona Coupe, there are only so many people who can afford to spend that kind of money on a toy and you will be competing with a lot of other high end toys that have GPS, superior sound systems and the internet at their disposal. I have to imagine that the GT40 will be in the $200K+ range and a Cobra would probably be low to mid $100K range turnkey. Then there also is the issue that the toys are not exactly as water proof as other vehicles in the same price range....

While us old timers like the Shelby mystique, the younger generation is more into electronics for their toys. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Well let's see....SPF has sold about 3500 cars and Kirkham has sold "Xxx" so the law of percentages says more Superformance cars will be for sale. How many Honda Civics are for sale in your local paper?

I believe Kirkham is in the 800-900 area of production and of course that includes the alloy CSX's.

The ONLY Kirkham on CobraCountry WAS local (SF Bay Area) Dave Brown's blue Kirkham 427SC last listed at $125,000, which was sold last September and shipped off to Switzerland. So, there are no Kirkham's available on Cobra Country.

There is one Kirkham on eBay located in San Jose, CA at $135,000/make offer:

1965 Shelby 427 kirkham shelby 427 cobra

No affiliation.

[Dimis]

Compared to buying new, 2nd hand Kirkhams at $135k seems cheap.

Hey MarkIV, as the numbers are (approx) 3500 to 900, shouldn't adds on CC be closer to 1 in 4 being kirkhams? Any thoughts?

Is mr mustang perhaps on to something?
Curious...

Good luck with your search sea2jet.

[RodKnock]

I'm sure part of the reason is that it's just a snap shot in time.

Maybe another part of the reason you see fewer Kirkhams for sale is because at $100,000 for a roller and probably another $50,000 +/- to finish (options, polishing/paint, engine, trans, blah, blah, blah), many owners (no, not all) have a higher disposable income and can afford to keep their toys longer and still buy other "objects of their affection" aka "The Jay Leno Effect."

And buying, selling and trading at $50,000 +/- is a helluva lot easier than 3x that amount. The SPF is also a great well-known brand within our community and I'm sure a good chunk of their buyer profile are 1st time Cobra owners, who want a solid well-built well-known brand of Cobra replica, try it out for a while, and often decide they don't like Cobras, which inevitably leads to their selling it.

Pure speculation.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm sure part of the reason is that it's just a snap shot in time.

Maybe another part of the reason you see fewer Kirkhams for sale is because at $100,000 for a roller and probably another $50,000 +/- to finish (options, polishing/paint, engine, trans, blah, blah, blah), many owners (no, not all) have a higher disposable income and can afford to keep their toys longer and still buy other "objects of their affection" aka "The Jay Leno Effect."

And buying, selling and trading at $50,000 +/- is a helluva lot easier than 3x that amount. The SPF is also a great well-known brand within our community and I'm sure a good chunk of their buyer profile are 1st time Cobra owners, who want a solid well-built well-known brand of Cobra replica, try it out for a while, and often decide they don't like Cobras, which inevitably leads to their selling it.

Pure speculation.

Speculation? i'll say.
This is " if we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs.....if we had some eggs" .
Is this based on anything? One thing that is based on actual demographic research, higher disposable income types typically are more flippers than holders......generally. For instance, the NBA.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

Speculation? i'll say.
This is " if we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs.....if we had some eggs" .
Is this based on anything? One thing that is based on actual demographic research, higher disposable income types typically are more flippers than holders......generally. For instance, the NBA.

Yep, pure unadulterated speculation.

It would seem to me that logically, if you're going to dip your foot into the water, you don't buy a $125,000 Kirkham (to use Dave Brown's Kirkham price from above). And they're aluminum, which means to many out there that they dent easy, as opposed to fiberglass which cracks, and polishing bare aluminum is more difficult than paint. It's not.

If I'm dipping my toe into the water of Cobras, then $50,000 would be the smarter choice, just in case I change my mind, which most do. Too loud, too hot, they leak, no top, wind too much, roll bar, blah, blah, blah.

Also, SPF does a FAR better job of mass marketing than Kirkham. For one thing, it seems I get a few pop-up ads every day for SPF with their products, whether it be the Corvette GS, Cobra, GT40, etc. You want brand new? SPF has a dealer network (queue Rick Muck's appearance 3, 2, 1 ) with their HQ in the car capital of the country, SoCal/LA. Inventory standing by right now.

You wanna new Kirkham? Go to UT. And wait a VERY long time.

Seems academic to me.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

One thing that is based on actual demographic research, higher disposable income types typically are more flippers than holders......generally. For instance, the NBA.

Yes, I'm sure all the doctors, lawyers, CPA's and Facebook and Google millionaires are flipping cars part-time to make some extra cash and create headaches for themselves for some extra Christmas cash.

My LinkedIn profile says I flip cars for kicks and make a few grand every month.

Let's just say, I disagree.

[RodKnock]

BTW, I know of several car flippers and their disposable incomes aren't very high. And they're going to get rich doing it either.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Yes, I'm sure all the doctors, lawyers, CPA's and Facebook and Google millionaires are flipping cars part-time to make some extra cash and create headaches for themselves for some extra Christmas cash.

My LinkedIn profile says I flip cars for kicks and make a few grand every month.

Let's just say, I disagree.

Among the somewhat unfounded assumptions you seem intent on making is the implication I was talking about flipping....am not, was not.
Throughout the entire collector car market, there has always been a large demographic with changing interests, low threshholds of boredom, etc.
It runs right from six figure hotrods, Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches, current, vintage, and everything in between probably including the hole strata of Cobras, real, copies, almost real, etc.
If there is one particular demographic about Cobras is that now old guys that lusted after them as teens can actually afford some version of one, two stark realizations enter into the equation, A. they're getting older and B. maybe 2500lbs. & 500,600,700,HP wasn't such a great idea given A.
Lastly, it seems no matter how prepared some of these "enthusiasts" intent on being, the fact that they spent serious cash and have something that's hot, smelly, shakey, drippy, where things fall off once in a while, and will kill you for inattention.......see A.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

One thing that is based on actual demographic research, higher disposable income types typically are more flippers than holders......generally.

If you're not talking about flippers here, then WTF are you talking about? You wrote the word "flippers."

Originally Posted by Tim7139

Among the somewhat unfounded assumptions you seem intent on making is the implication I was talking about flipping....am not, was not.
Throughout the entire collector car market, there has always been a large demographic with changing interests, low threshholds of boredom, etc.
It runs right from six figure hotrods, Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches, current, vintage, and everything in between probably including the hole strata of Cobras, real, copies, almost real, etc.
If there is one particular demographic about Cobras is that now old guys that lusted after them as teens can actually afford some version of one, two stark realizations enter into the equation, A. they're getting older and B. maybe 2500lbs. & 500,600,700,HP wasn't such a great idea given A.
Lastly, it seems no matter how prepared some of these "enthusiasts" intent on being, the fact that they spent serious cash and have something that's hot, smelly, shakey, drippy, where things fall off once in a while, and will kill you for inattention.......see A.

Yes, TWICE, I said I was speculating. So, you're correct, my assertions and speculation are based upon unfounded assumptions. This is the Internet. Welcome!

And finally, it sounds like you agree with me. It's easier to buy and sell a $50,000 Cobra than a $150,000 Cobra. So that's one reason why you see no Kirkhams for sale on Cobra Country and about 25 SPF's (or whatever the number). So, argue away, even though it sounds like you agree with my "unfounded assumption."

To reiterate, the SPF is a well-built well-known widely available Cobra replica brand at an attractive price point and that's one reason why there are so many for sale as compared to Kirkhams. While the Kirkham is 3x as expensive, which eliminates most Cobra replica buyers, the perceived "delicate" alloy body and long wait time to get one are also reasons for fewer Kirkhams on the market. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

SPF has a dealer network (queue Rick Muck's appearance 3, 2, 1 )

Thank you,

I will be appearing here all week. Tip your waitress and try the veal!

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

If you're not talking about flippers here, then WTF are you talking about? You wrote the word "flippers."




Yes, TWICE, I said I was speculating. So, you're correct, my assertions and speculation are based upon unfounded assumptions. This is the Internet. Welcome!

And finally, it sounds like you agree with me. It's easier to buy and sell a $50,000 Cobra than a $150,000 Cobra. So that's one reason why you see no Kirkhams for sale on Cobra Country and about 25 SPF's (or whatever the number). So, argue away, even though it sounds like you agree with my "unfounded assumption."

To reiterate, the SPF is a well-built well-known widely available Cobra replica brand at an attractive price point and that's one reason why there are so many for sale as compared to Kirkhams. While the Kirkham is 3x as expensive, which eliminates most Cobra replica buyers, the perceived "delicate" alloy body and long wait time to get one are also reasons for fewer Kirkhams on the market. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

It was'nt me, I don't remember, I was overserved, the dog grabbed the keyboard, I f..ked up.
Wrong choice of words frankly. I know the flipper connotation is buy-sell make a buck but I meant more short term than collector.....my bad.
On the bright side.....you're paying attention, keep up the good work.