Engine and gearbox - how hard to fit to car?

[DanEC]

I did the install myself on my ERA because I'm a bit anal and consider all my car buddies a bit ham fisted. Because of that I mounted the clutch/flywheel and dropped the engine straight in by itself. Then I bolted on the bell housing and installed the transmission from inside the interior. The only issue I had with this is that the Toploader is a heavy transmission and mounts considerably up and under the instrument panel/cowl. I've learned to work around this by cutting 4 lengths (roughly 10" long) of all thread to thread into the trans to bellhousing bolt holes. Then I slide the transmission on plywood covering the floor over to the center, stand straddling it and heft it up on to the 4 dowels. From that point on, if you got the disc aligned accurately ( I would test fit to engine while on the ground or hoist first), my transmission slides into place like closing the bolt on a bolt action rifle.

But if you have a helper you can install it all assembled with a go-slow approach.

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by DanEC

I did the install myself on my ERA because I'm a bit anal and consider all my car buddies a bit ham fisted. Because of that I mounted the clutch/flywheel and dropped the engine straight in by itself. Then I bolted on the bell housing and installed the transmission from inside the interior. The only issue I had with this is that the Toploader is a heavy transmission and mounts considerably up and under the instrument panel/cowl. I've learned to work around this by cutting 4 lengths (roughly 10" long) of all thread to thread into the trans to bellhousing bolt holes. Then I slide the transmission on plywood covering the floor over to the center, stand straddling it and heft it up on to the 4 dowels. From that point on, if you got the disc aligned accurately ( I would test fit to engine while on the ground or hoist first), my transmission slides into place like closing the bolt on a bolt action rifle.

But if you have a helper you can install it all assembled with a go-slow approach.

Some good advice there Dan. We are on the same page with a number of things there.
I do recall from your build thread the idea of the long studs for aligning the gearbox, but I have no removable sheet metal to give me access from above; my tunnel has limited clearance to the Toploader, so engine and gearbox will have to go in as one unit.

The "go-slow approach" is the way to go.

Cheers,
Glen

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by xb-60

Some good advice there Dan. We are on the same page with a number of things there.
I do recall from your build thread the idea of the long studs for aligning the gearbox, but I have no removable sheet metal to give me access from above; my tunnel has limited clearance to the Toploader, so engine and gearbox will have to go in as one unit.

The "go-slow approach" is the way to go.

Cheers,
Glen

Ahh - that’s going to require a different approach then. Good luck.

[1795]

Glen,

When I have to pull the engine on my MGB race car the transmission has to come out with it and go back in with it attached, as like you car the tub is solid and there is nothing to remove. With the MGB I have to remove the radiator in order to gain enough room to tilt the engine/transmission combo in and the slowly change the angle and move the unit towards the rear of the car. You will be alternating at times between dropping the tail of the transmission and raising it as you slowly move the unit in place. This is where the leveler becomes very handy. Just crack the relief valve a little bit at a time until you just start to see some movement and then be ready to tighten quickly.

Good luck.

Jim

[Michael C Henry]

I had my engine out years ago the portable engine hoist even when extended usually are too short from the front and the cars front wheel are in the way from the side. I ended up using my (Swing set style) hoist that I built 53 years ago of heavy walled pipe and added reinforcement, It was too short I had to put the legs up on concrete blocks. The engine goes in and out with out headers, no bell housing or clutch, and transmission siting in tunnel tucked back on the rear rear ( yes I did say rear rear) cross member. It took days to get everything connected. Headers have 14 stage eight header bolts longer length Chevy. (1/4" longer) bolts per side. Old black and white pictures of original Shelby shop , engines were installed while car was backed up an incline nose down. I recommend an over head hoist, sling balancer and every one you can get to help. You'll have to throttle the beer until your almost done.

[Michael C Henry]

Any new parts? Make sure that everything fits before you have the engine in and find the trans input tip is too large for the pilot bearing, or the bellhousing won't go on if you already have the clutch bolted to the flywheel. With my car the transmission was tucked in to the tunnel and wedged to just sit on the rear most cross member. Then the engine, bell housing, then the clutch, the transmission How do I remember ? I had to do a lot of backing up and do over. that is the stuff you will remember. It is kind of like building a ship in a bottle. Headers I have Dove aluminum replica Canadian Super Cobra Jet heads with both the Galaxy -Truck and the Mustang-Fairlane exhaust bolt patterns the headers were missing the out side bolt hole flanges so 14 bolts per side. Stage 8 header bolts offer a 3/4" for Fords and have 1" long bolts for Chevrolets I had aluminum heads so I wanted as much thread contact as possible and used copper exhaust gaskets. No regrets. Oh Oh! Long chain fall hoists will pluck your dipstick right out and scratch the fenders.

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by Michael C Henry

....It is kind of like building a ship in a bottle.....Long chain fall hoists will pluck your dipstick right out and scratch the fenders.

Thanks Michael. As mentioned engine and g'box will need to be in one unit. It's the small tips like the errant dipstick that are hard to anticipate

Cheers,
Glen

[DanEC]

I agree with Chicagowil about needing a good heavy duty hoist with a long reach and high capacity. Years ago I pulled a 427/4 speed altogether out of my 66 Corvette from the front and it was all it could do to reach it and snatch it out from the front. And this motor had aluminum heads and intake so not especially heavy. Had to clear everything out in front of the motor including the radiator support.

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by DanEC

I agree with Chicagowil about needing a good heavy duty hoist with a long reach and high capacity. Years ago I pulled a 427/4 speed altogether out of my 66 Corvette from the front and it was all it could do to reach it and snatch it out from the front. And this motor had aluminum heads and intake so not especially heavy. Had to clear everything out in front of the motor including the radiator support.

Don't want to find myself in the situation where I'm 6" too short in my reach. I'll check my hoist (currently disassembled) and report back....

[patrickt]

In my almost 50 years of monkeying with cars, I have never pulled, nor dropped, an engine in to a car by my lonesome self. I think I could do an ERA by myself, but I still wouldn't try. I don't even want to have to dead lift the TKO myself, which is a hundred pounds. Have someone help you, even if it's your wife. Having that extra pair of hands to just guide the engine down on to the mounts, and not whack the side of the foot box or firewall, is really, really helpful. You've come this far, don't f*** it up now.

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by patrickt

....Have someone help you, even if it's your wife......You've come this far, don't f*** it up now.

Pat, I usually agree with the logic of your arguments....but this one, I have issues with

Cheers!
Glen

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by DanEC

I agree with Chicagowil about needing a good heavy duty hoist with a long reach and high capacity. Years ago I pulled a 427/4 speed altogether out of my 66 Corvette from the front and it was all it could do to reach it and snatch it out from the front. And this motor had aluminum heads and intake so not especially heavy. Had to clear everything out in front of the motor including the radiator support.

Originally Posted by xb-60

Don't want to find myself in the situation where I'm 6" too short in my reach. I'll check my hoist (currently disassembled) and report back....

Lucky I checked.
With the boom extended to maximum reach (which de-rates the lift capacity from 1250kg to 500kg) I have a reach of around 1.2m (4ft) and I need around 1.5m (5ft) to approach from the front of the car. Approaching from the side, which some recommend, I have plenty of reach as well as the ability to easily adjust in fore/aft and transverse directions.
Better to establish that beforehand rather than on the day

Cheers!
Glen

[DanEC]

Probably but not a wild idea. Chrysler installed their motor, transmission, front K-frame and suspension assembly from underneath. I helped a friend install his Hemi engine and front sub-assembly in his 69 Roadrunner this way. He used his engine hoist to raise the front of the car up in the air and the whole engine/front end assembly rolled in under the car on a caster frame and the car front end was lowered over it until the K-member seated on the body. The main problem with this on a Cobra would be having some sort of bolted on frame extension to chain the engine hoist to - although the hoist could be tied to the front frame rails at the very front of the hood opening area, ahead of the engine position. Intriguing idea but I’m not sure a practical one.

[1795]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Probably but not a wild idea. Chrysler installed their motor, transmission, front K-frame and suspension assembly from underneath. I helped a friend install his Hemi engine and front sub-assembly in his 69 Roadrunner this way. He used his engine hoist to raise the front of the car up in the air and the whole engine/front end assembly rolled in under the car on a caster frame and the car front end was lowered over it until the K-member seated on the body. The main problem with this on a Cobra would be having some sort of bolted on frame extension to chain the engine hoist to - although the hoist could be tied to the front frame rails at the very front of the hood opening area, ahead of the engine position. Intriguing idea but I’m not sure a practical one.

Interesting idea Dan, I was going to jokingly suggest that he get several friends and have them carry the body and frame over the engine/transmission combo and then drop them in place. Not sue how wide the frame rails and motor mounts are on Glen's car and if they would clear the heads.

Jim

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by xb-60

All good points Tim....although I'm thinking maybe the less people, the better. Otherwise could be too easy to go too fast with too many opinions flying around. I respectfully add that unfortunately, my most likely helpers could accurately ID the front of the car from the back, but that would be their limit (that doesn't include immediate blood relatives). The red wine will be on hand. I do recall a picture of your car with a bottle of champagne on the air cleaner

Cheers,
Glen

Originally Posted by 1795

Interesting idea Dan, I was going to jokingly suggest that he get several friends and have them carry the body and frame over the engine/transmission combo and then drop them in place. Not sue how wide the frame rails and motor mounts are on Glen's car and if they would clear the heads.

Jim

Good point on the frame rail spacing. My ERAs are definitely too narrow even for a small block.

[t walgamuth]

Looks tight.

[DanEC]

Well, I can tell you shoe-horning a 426 Hemi into an engine bay from underneath is extremely tight as that thing is really big. But Chrysler made it possible by attaching the lower suspension arm to the K-member which is part of the engine/transmission/k-member that goes in from underneath at once - something we don't have the advantage of.

Your frame opening does look pretty open and your dimensions seem to show 2 - 3 inches to clear which could be enough going really slow. The valve covers could probably be left off if that reduces width any - may not on a small block. Is the area the transmission fits also open? Does it have a bolt in cross-member or does the transmission tail have to slide in over a cross member? If the latter that might be an issue as to do this by raising the front of the car, a mid-point cross member will be pretty high and the transmission tail will be pretty low. If the body/frame were put on a 2-post lift where it sits level and is lowered over the engine then the tail of the transmission could be raised with a jack at some point and the motor/trans assembly rolled back until the engine is in position.

Not sure about the mounts - looks like they would have to come out and go in after at least the heads are up into the engine bay. Getting to them to bolt in place might be an issue.

What manufacturer Cobra is this by the way?

[xb-60]

Dan, the chassis is an all-aluminium alloy semi-monocoque....hence no access to the gearbox from above. The tunnel is open on the underside (see pic.) for most of its length and the crossmember for gearbox support is fitted separately, after the engine and gearbox assembly is fitted.

Which manufacturer? My car is a PACE 289FIA. PACE hail from Arundel, just south of Brisbane, Qld, Australia. The chassis is their design, and the body is a PACE-modified Bruce Chervenak body, reinforced with carbon fibre and kevlar, and modelled on CSX2323.

To my knowledge there only two PACE 289 FIA/USRRC cars here in Australia. The other one, a USRRC replica of Ken Miles' car, is near Canberra, around 800 miles away.

Here's a view down the tunnel....



Cheers,
Glen

[BJ's Snake]

I took the body off to do other jobs and dropped the engine in at the same time.









Cheers

[xb-60]

Well, I'm not going to take the body off now, am I?

Remind me, you had the gearbox and engine as one unit for fitment to the chassis, yes?

Cheers,
Glen