Engine and gearbox - how hard to fit to car?

[xb-60]

Looking at fitting my engine and gearbox into my car in the not too distant future.
Engine is a 302W and the gearbox is a Toploader.

It's some years since I last fitted an engine and gearbox assembly into a car.
Question: with a decent mobile engine hoist (which I have), how hard is it to fit a Windsor plus Toploader into a 'typical' Cobra engine bay?
I don't have an engine crane leveller, but assuming I can source one, is this an operation I should be thinking about doing myself? .....and no smart @ss comments please

Cheers,
Glen

[Gaz64]

A leveller, a 2nd pair of hands, and rear end of car up high on stands.
Gary

[Alfa02]

First off Congrants on getting to this stage, now, if I can't leave a Smart A$$ comment, then I would have nothing to say You wouldn't want that, would you Glen See this leaves just a short post, that's not like me either Cheers TommyRot.

[Dimis]

Not hard, but safer to do it in pairs... Particularly if you've already painted it, as you have...

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

A leveller, a 2nd pair of hands, and rear end of car up high on stands.
Gary

Sounds like a plan Gary.

The last engine out/in, as I said, was 'some years ago'. Had to replace the clutch plate on a car that I'd prefer not to mention (a less than illustrious GM product), so needed to remove the engine and gearbox because of lack of room between engine and firewall, and when I started the engine after replacing the clutch plate, and depressed the clutch, I knew immediately that I had the clutch plate in the wrong way around. Hence, remove-and refit engine and gearbox twice in one day. You learn by your mistakes, yes?

Cheers,
Glen

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by Alfa02

First off Congrants on getting to this stage, now, if I can't leave a Smart A$$ comment, then I would have nothing to say You wouldn't want that, would you Glen See this leaves just a short post, that's not like me either Cheers TommyRot.

Tom, it's not like you to restrain yourself. Are you feeling unwell ? Possibly a touch too much of that excellent South Australian red wine?

Cheers, my friend!
Glen

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Not hard, but safer to do it in pairs... Particularly if you've already painted it, as you have...

Mr. Dimis, nice to hear from you. I did (very briefly) consider leaving it unpainted as you have, but in my case the polishing left something to be desired

Cheers,
Glen

edit: safer in 'pairs' ....does that mean a trip to Adelaide is planned?

[1795]

Glen,

I did mine separately, but if you have the rear end elevated it could work together. Either way a second set of hands helps. If by yourself you may want to do it separately as there isa lot of maneuvering. I did mine by myself, it was a pain but got it done. You definitely need the leveler, not possible with out it. Because of the leaf spring suspension on my car, I had to come in from the side as there was not enough boom on my hoist to come in from the nose.

If you put them in apart you can get some 5" long bolts that thread into the bell housing, cut the heads off and thread the into the bell housing (once the engine is secure on the mounts) and use them as guides to slides the top loader on and slide it forward. Once in place just remove one of these dowels at a time and insert a bolt.

Good luck. Also, I would place some blankets or other soft object around the opening to protect your paint. You will need at least one more pair of hands to get the hood on and line up the bolts for that.

[Chicagowil]

The leveler makes a huge difference. Without it you will struggle and most likely chip/scratch your paint. And measure how far a reach your hoist has to the center of your engine bay without it hitting the nose of the car. Some of the hoists do not have much reach.

When I installed my motor, I made sure I could reach beyond the center of the bay. I had the back end of the car on dollies with the front tires on the ground. That raised the rear about 3 inches but it also allowed me to shove the rear of the car around if needed instead of trying to wrestle the motor, trans and hoist around for final alignment.

I also place a trans dolly or a car dolly under the car that the trans tail can rest on so as I insert the motor/trans, I can place the tail on the movable dolly instead of it gouging into the pavement. Saves the tail of the trans and replaces the 2nd set of hands to get the tail in place. The trans dolly has the added advantage of being able to lift the tail as it gets in place. Go slow and inch it in, then down, then in again. Too often everyone wants to rush and that is when mistakes happen or someone gets hurt!

A 2nd set of hands are a big help. But I remove/install my motors by myself (at 67 yrs old). Go slow and let the lift do the work. Make sure you test how the release valve works (how fast it will drop with the load) before you are over the car, Best to know before you have it over a fender or nose and when you go to release it to slowly lower the load and it drops! Scares the hell out of you at best!




Thom

[1795]

Glen,

I just remembered something. Check your side to side clearances for the headers. I could not install my engine with the headers attached, as there was not enough room. But I also could not get the headers in after the engine was installed, not enough room from the top or bottom. I had to place the headers in first at their respective sides out of the way, and then pull them up for install after the engine was secure on the mounts. Each car is different, you may not have a problem with this, but it is better to check clearances first than to find out half way through that you need to pull the engine back out.

Jim

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by 1795

...If you put them in apart you can get some 5" long bolts that thread into the bell housing, cut the heads off and thread the into the bell housing (once the engine is secure on the mounts) and use them as guides to slides the top loader on and slide it forward....

Jim,
I'm thinking that I need to have the engine/scattershield/Toploader assembled already. Apparently there is not enough tunnel room for a clutch fork, so will need to be using a HTOB. Otherwise the long studs is a good idea.

Cheers,
Glen

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by Chicagowil

The leveler makes a huge difference. Without it you will struggle and most likely chip/scratch your paint. And measure how far a reach your hoist has to the center of your engine bay without it hitting the nose of the car. Some of the hoists do not have much reach.

When I installed my motor, I made sure I could reach beyond the center of the bay. I had the back end of the car on dollies with the front tires on the ground. That raised the rear about 3 inches but it also allowed me to shove the rear of the car around if needed instead of trying to wrestle the motor, trans and hoist around for final alignment.

I also place a trans dolly or a car dolly under the car that the trans tail can rest on so as I insert the motor/trans, I can place the tail on the movable dolly instead of it gouging into the pavement. Saves the tail of the trans and replaces the 2nd set of hands to get the tail in place. The trans dolly has the added advantage of being able to lift the tail as it gets in place. Go slow and inch it in, then down, then in again. Too often everyone wants to rush and that is when mistakes happen or someone gets hurt!

A 2nd set of hands are a big help. But I remove/install my motors by myself (at 67 yrs old). Go slow and let the lift do the work. Make sure you test how the release valve works (how fast it will drop with the load) before you are over the car, Best to know before you have it over a fender or nose and when you go to release it to slowly lower the load and it drops! Scares the hell out of you at best....

Thanks Thom. Good points, particularly about testing the release valve beforehand

Cheers,
Glen

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by 1795

....Check your side to side clearances for the headers. I could not install my engine with the headers attached, as there was not enough room. But I also could not get the headers in after the engine was installed, not enough room from the top or bottom.....

Thanks (again) Jim. I never would have considered that potential problem. Will definitely do some prelim. measurements before starting.

Cheers,
Glen

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by xb-60

Sounds like a plan Gary.

The last engine out/in, as I said, was 'some years ago'. Had to replace the clutch plate on a car that I'd prefer not to mention (a less than illustrious GM product), so needed to remove the engine and gearbox because of lack of room between engine and firewall, and when I started the engine after replacing the clutch plate, and depressed the clutch, I knew immediately that I had the clutch plate in the wrong way around. Hence, remove-and refit engine and gearbox twice in one day. You learn by your mistakes, yes?

Cheers,
Glen

Yes, I have helped a friend of mine who did the same thing. He wasn't happy either.
I have also witnessed a motor "drop" into an engine bay, when a cocky 2nd year said "I'll do the valve thing".
Amazingly it fell to the mounts, lined up etc. It came out for inspection, and then went in again with some better experience. Gary

[xb-60]

All part of the learning curve in life, huh? Valuable experience, and even better if nobody is hurt (maybe pride, sometimes )

Cheers,
Glen

[tkb289]

Hi Glen,

A very exciting milestone indeed for your build, congratulations. Not much I can add to what has already been said, lots of excellent advice here as one would expect. Having some helpers will make the job a lot easier and less stressful. For maneuvering the motor & hoist, practice is a good idea. Sweep the floor so when you are trying to maneuver the hoist it will roll smoothly, maybe give the axles a bit of oil or grease to reduce friction.

Take your time and if you run into a road block, stop and consider your options. When you fit the bonnet (hood), use some putty or modeling clay to check for clearance between the air cleaner and the underside of the bonnet as you slowly close it. The amount of clearance will be evident in the thickness of the modeling clay.

Be sure to put the clutch disc in right way round … … have a glass of that fine South Australian red wine, AFTER the motor is in and be sure to have Alfie supervise.

[DanEC]

I did the install myself on my ERA because I'm a bit anal and consider all my car buddies a bit ham fisted. Because of that I mounted the clutch/flywheel and dropped the engine straight in by itself. Then I bolted on the bell housing and installed the transmission from inside the interior. The only issue I had with this is that the Toploader is a heavy transmission and mounts considerably up and under the instrument panel/cowl. I've learned to work around this by cutting 4 lengths (roughly 10" long) of all thread to thread into the trans to bellhousing bolt holes. Then I slide the transmission on plywood covering the floor over to the center, stand straddling it and heft it up on to the 4 dowels. From that point on, if you got the disc aligned accurately ( I would test fit to engine while on the ground or hoist first), my transmission slides into place like closing the bolt on a bolt action rifle.

But if you have a helper you can install it all assembled with a go-slow approach.

[Michael C Henry]

I had my engine out years ago the portable engine hoist even when extended usually are too short from the front and the cars front wheel are in the way from the side. I ended up using my (Swing set style) hoist that I built 53 years ago of heavy walled pipe and added reinforcement, It was too short I had to put the legs up on concrete blocks. The engine goes in and out with out headers, no bell housing or clutch, and transmission siting in tunnel tucked back on the rear rear ( yes I did say rear rear) cross member. It took days to get everything connected. Headers have 14 stage eight header bolts longer length Chevy. (1/4" longer) bolts per side. Old black and white pictures of original Shelby shop , engines were installed while car was backed up an incline nose down. I recommend an over head hoist, sling balancer and every one you can get to help. You'll have to throttle the beer until your almost done.

[Michael C Henry]

Any new parts? Make sure that everything fits before you have the engine in and find the trans input tip is too large for the pilot bearing, or the bellhousing won't go on if you already have the clutch bolted to the flywheel. With my car the transmission was tucked in to the tunnel and wedged to just sit on the rear most cross member. Then the engine, bell housing, then the clutch, the transmission How do I remember ? I had to do a lot of backing up and do over. that is the stuff you will remember. It is kind of like building a ship in a bottle. Headers I have Dove aluminum replica Canadian Super Cobra Jet heads with both the Galaxy -Truck and the Mustang-Fairlane exhaust bolt patterns the headers were missing the out side bolt hole flanges so 14 bolts per side. Stage 8 header bolts offer a 3/4" for Fords and have 1" long bolts for Chevrolets I had aluminum heads so I wanted as much thread contact as possible and used copper exhaust gaskets. No regrets. Oh Oh! Long chain fall hoists will pluck your dipstick right out and scratch the fenders.

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by tkb289

Hi Glen,

A very exciting milestone indeed for your build, congratulations. Not much I can add to what has already been said, lots of excellent advice here as one would expect. Having some helpers will make the job a lot easier and less stressful. For maneuvering the motor & hoist, practice is a good idea. Sweep the floor so when you are trying to maneuver the hoist it will roll smoothly, maybe give the axles a bit of oil or grease to reduce friction.

Take your time and if you run into a road block, stop and consider your options. When you fit the bonnet (hood), use some putty or modeling clay to check for clearance between the air cleaner and the underside of the bonnet as you slowly close it. The amount of clearance will be evident in the thickness of the modeling clay.

Be sure to put the clutch disc in right way round … … have a glass of that fine South Australian red wine, AFTER the motor is in and be sure to have Alfie supervise.

All good points Tim....although I'm thinking maybe the less people, the better. Otherwise could be too easy to go too fast with too many opinions flying around. I respectfully add that unfortunately, my most likely helpers could accurately ID the front of the car from the back, but that would be their limit (that doesn't include immediate blood relatives). The red wine will be on hand. I do recall a picture of your car with a bottle of champagne on the air cleaner

Cheers,
Glen