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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2020, 09:21 PM
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Default 7.3 Liter Ford Godzilla crate engine

So who is going to go with one of these new Ford Godzilla craft engines in their cobra. Looks like a serious OEM fuel injected pushrod option that we can actually put a twin screw supercharger on! I’ve seen articles were Whipple superchargers is in development. This looks like a great alternative over a coyote for a supercharged option that will give you that old school sound. Should make ridiculous power with a mild cam. I love the option that Ford has given us with an OEM fuel injected setup. To my knowledge without some heavy customization the 351w is not a candidate for a twin screw setup.
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Old 07-03-2020, 09:29 AM
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This is what the Whipple Twin Screw kit looks like;



The throttle body uses a 132 mm blade and Whipple claims 700 HP and 750 ft/lbs of torque which I believe to be quite conservative. The kit comes with an oversized intercooler built into the intake manifold and a manifold so the kit amounts to essentially a bolt on plus tuning.

My little 4.6L engine with a smaller 2.3L blower at only 17 lbs of boost produces over 650 hp at the tire which is a little north of 750 at the flywheel. I suspect 700 HP out of a 7.3L engine with a later generation 3.0L blower is a gross understatement, sort of like a walk in the park with one hand tied behind it's back. My suspicion is that waaaay more torque and HP is easily available on pump gas.

This raises the obvious question of just because you can, should you? 650 HP at the tire is significantly silly power in cars this small and this light. The throttle response of a Cobra with a little 4.6L engine and an older 2.3L Whipple is significantly greater than that of my Tesla set on kill.

Although this sort of engine option fits into the stupid silly power level category, it is still an interesting choice especially if your right foot is capable of more than an on and off sort of gas pedal operation. A good aftermarket EFI system with traction control will go a long ways towards making this a safe sort of option.



Ed


p.s. Here is a Ford promo pic of the n/a OEM version of the engine;



I couldn't find dimensions but it appears to approximate the size of an FE engine. Ford says it weighs 737 lbs as pictured and costs $8,150 MSRP through Ford.
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Last edited by eschaider; 07-03-2020 at 10:50 AM.. Reason: Added PostScript
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Old 07-03-2020, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
This is what the Whipple Twin Screw kit looks like;



The throttle body uses a 132 mm blade and Whipple claims 700 HP and 750 ft/lbs of torque which I believe to be quite conservative. The kit comes with an oversized intercooler built into the intake manifold and a manifold so the kit amounts to essentially a bolt on plus tuning.

My little 4.6L engine with a smaller 2.3L blower at only 17 lbs of boost produces over 650 hp at the tire which is a little north of 750 at the flywheel. I suspect 700 HP out of a 7.3L engine with a later generation 3.0L blower is a gross understatement, sort of like a walk in the park with one hand tied behind it's back. My suspicion is that waaaay more torque and HP is easily available on pump gas.

This raises the obvious question of just because you can, should you? 650 HP at the tire is significantly silly power in cars this small and this light. The throttle response of a Cobra with a little 4.6L engine and an older 2.3L Whipple is significantly greater than that of my Tesla set on kill.

Although this sort of engine option fits into the stupid silly power level category, it is still an interesting choice especially if your right foot is capable of more than an on and off sort of gas pedal operation. A good aftermarket EFI system with traction control will go a long ways towards making this a safe sort of option.



Ed


p.s. Here is a Ford promo pic of the n/a OEM version of the engine;



I couldn't find dimensions but it appears to approximate the size of an FE engine. Ford says it weighs 737 lbs as pictured and costs $8,150 MSRP through Ford.
With those manifolds you could do a slabside with under car exhaust and have a real sleeper. Hmmm...
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Old 07-03-2020, 06:29 PM
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I was thinking the same thing, Brian. For an OEM proletariate manifold they are pretty nice.


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Old 07-03-2020, 06:29 PM
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Its roughly the size of a 351W, but 67lbs heavier. More info from this thread I posted in Feb. Ford's new 7.3L 446ci engine
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Old 07-03-2020, 10:51 PM
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Default Too Much

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
This is what the Whipple Twin Screw kit looks like;



The throttle body uses a 132 mm blade and Whipple claims 700 HP and 750 ft/lbs of torque which I believe to be quite conservative. The kit comes with an oversized intercooler built into the intake manifold and a manifold so the kit amounts to essentially a bolt on plus tuning.

My little 4.6L engine with a smaller 2.3L blower at only 17 lbs of boost produces over 650 hp at the tire which is a little north of 750 at the flywheel. I suspect 700 HP out of a 7.3L engine with a later generation 3.0L blower is a gross understatement, sort of like a walk in the park with one hand tied behind it's back. My suspicion is that waaaay more torque and HP is easily available on pump gas.

This raises the obvious question of just because you can, should you? 650 HP at the tire is significantly silly power in cars this small and this light. The throttle response of a Cobra with a little 4.6L engine and an older 2.3L Whipple is significantly greater than that of my Tesla set on kill.

Although this sort of engine option fits into the stupid silly power level category, it is still an interesting choice especially if your right foot is capable of more than an on and off sort of gas pedal operation. A good aftermarket EFI system with traction control will go a long ways towards making this a safe sort of option.



Ed


p.s. Here is a Ford promo pic of the n/a OEM version of the engine;



I couldn't find dimensions but it appears to approximate the size of an FE engine. Ford says it weighs 737 lbs as pictured and costs $8,150 MSRP through Ford.
Way too much! I have apx 600 hp at the crank and 315 nt05 will not hold in third gear that is just way over kill . I agree silly. All you are going to due is break expensive parts.
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Old 07-03-2020, 10:53 PM
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Meant to add this thought earlier but was suffering's brain fade.

The engine as delivered by Ford is around 10.3:1 or 10.5:1 c/r which is a little frisky for supercharged gas. If you want to run boost in the mid to high teens you probably want to pull the compression back to 8.5:1 or maybe 9:1 max. Moreover the n/a gas pistons in the OEM build would need some vitamin "C" for a supercharged application.

Places I would look to strengthen would be the skirts, dropping the top ring to get it away from the supercharged inferno in the combustion chamber. Increasing the ring package spacing for better seal and performance. Tool steel wrist pins and probably some sort of aftermarket rod replacement for the increased torque.

Still at an $8,150 crate MSRP with a real price somewhere lower than that, even with the price of the Whipple this becomes a very attractive engine alternative with a mountain of torque and power.


Ed
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Old 07-03-2020, 10:58 PM
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I recently purchased a Lincoln Nautilus with the 2.0 Ltr engine, and I also looked at a bunch of new Ford SUV and trucks. These new engines have both direct injection and port injection. They are able to make serious Hp and Torque on turbo charged engines, with very high compression ratios. There is a version of the 3.5 Ltr truck that has over 13:1 compression ratio and makes over 400 Hp.

I know the 7.3 Ltr is N/A and designed to make power lugging heavy loads for a long time, while the small turbo stuff can only make power for a short time before melting itself (I know the ECU will not let you melt it down, but it will also cut the power). But what all technology is on this monster and how do you control it? I'm sure if it is not known yet, it soon will be. It will be interesting.
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:00 PM
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I’m sure it makes way more power than you need in a cobra but I thought it was a great option. I’m unaware of any pushrod Ford options that can run a twinscrew. If you want the awesome old school sound of a cam then this is our way around using an LS setup. I bet with just a cam this thing would make incredible numbers with that blower. Another option would be the tried and true 385 series big block and go with less tech.
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Old 07-06-2020, 04:18 AM
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Will it truly fit? There are a number of things attached to the bottom pan that would make me nervous. Personally I don’t see the need for an engine like this in a Cobra as it is designed for torque so that tells me it’s more truck than car engine. Plus you don’t need this much HP.
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:14 AM
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Will it truly fit? There are a number of things attached to the bottom pan that would make me nervous. Personally I don’t see the need for an engine like this in a Cobra as it is designed for torque so that tells me it’s more truck than car engine. Plus you don’t need this much HP.

You should build a suitably small, low torque engine for your Cobra that will make you happy. This kind of engine is obviously not your cup of tea. That doesn't mean it is not someone else's.

When you build an engine there are all kinds of options that open up to you as the builder. The 'things' attached to 'the bottom pan' that would make you nervous may or may not be necessary and may or may not be relocatable.

Most importantly because this engine is obviously not suitable for you, those items are not necessarily an issue. For those of us who value torque, horsepower and reasonable cost. this might be a much better fit than for you.

In the end we should all do what makes us happy, including you. After all, that is why we decided to 'build' a custom version of these cars specifically for ourselves in the first place.


Ed
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Old 07-06-2020, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
You should build a suitably small, low torque engine for your Cobra that will make you happy. This kind of engine is obviously not your cup of tea. That doesn't mean it is not someone else's.

When you build an engine there are all kinds of options that open up to you as the builder. The 'things' attached to 'the bottom pan' that would make you nervous may or may not be necessary and may or may not be relocatable.

Most importantly because this engine is obviously not suitable for you, those items are not necessarily an issue. For those of us who value torque, horsepower and reasonable cost. this might be a much better fit than for you.

In the end we should all do what makes us happy, including you. After all, that is why we decided to 'build' a custom version of these cars specifically for ourselves in the first place.


Ed
Feel free to build away. I just believe there are better options and have stated that. Those “things” include the oil filter and one could possibly do a remote but not sure there is one built for this engine yet. You then have the additional weight of the engine as well to consider. No harm in doing it, I just stated my opinion like anyone else can.
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Old 07-06-2020, 03:09 PM
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I just stated my opinion like anyone else can.
Thank you.

well, I think if you want a whipplized engine, get either a ford 4.6, or a chevy. Displacement doesn't matter as much because you can just up the boost. Don't try to reinvent the wheel.

If you like centrifugal superchargers, then I would go 302/351 , unless you're building a super snake replica.

If you want the most power, then twin turbo is the way, probably best with a 302/351. Pretty compact package.

The 7.3 may be more headache than it is worth. Let other people figure it out first.
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Old 07-07-2020, 01:16 AM
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I would still say that Hp/$ the 385 series stroked is hard to beat. In fact a good set of heads, cam, and intake on standard 460 will make all the Hp and Torque the average guy can handle, for a very reasonable cost. The only problem is it takes a big shoe horn to slide one in.

Windsor stroker costs more, but fits a lot easier.

I have no idea if this new engine can be stuffed in, but the price tag is attractive enough to give it some thought.

If I was going to go for maximum performance in terms of weight and handling, I would go aftermarket 5.0 Windsor block with twin turbo set up. However I don't think any of these belongs in 427 Cobra, but they would all run well, and that's up to the owner to decide what they want.
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:55 AM
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I would still say that Hp/$ the 385 series stroked is hard to beat. In fact a good set of heads, cam, and intake on standard 460 will make all the Hp and Torque the average guy can handle, for a very reasonable cost. The only problem is it takes a big shoe horn to slide one in.

Windsor stroker costs more, but fits a lot easier.

I have no idea if this new engine can be stuffed in, but the price tag is attractive enough to give it some thought.

If I was going to go for maximum performance in terms of weight and handling, I would go aftermarket 5.0 Windsor block with twin turbo set up. However I don't think any of these belongs in 427 Cobra, but they would all run well, and that's up to the owner to decide what they want.
One BIG benefit of going 385 series is the engine was introduced in 1968 and produced for nearly 30 years. Not only are there a LOT of them out there (mostly in trucks), but the aftermarket has had lots of time and experience to develop and produce better components that are time-tested, reliable, etc. There's also plenty of engine builders with lots of experience building 800 HP, NA pump gas engines - and more.

The new Godzilla engine has the advantage of being a nice package from Ford that's probably going to be solid, but it will take time for the aftermarket and engine builders to get 1/4 of the way they already are with 385 engines.

My $0.02, FWIW.
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Old 07-09-2020, 08:02 AM
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Good Point
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Old 11-16-2020, 05:19 PM
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Another update on the 7.3 here:

https://fordauthority.com/2020/11/go...seconds-video/
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Old 11-17-2020, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
Meant to add this thought earlier but was suffering's brain fade.

The engine as delivered by Ford is around 10.3:1 or 10.5:1 c/r which is a little frisky for supercharged gas. If you want to run boost in the mid to high teens you probably want to pull the compression back to 8.5:1 or maybe 9:1 max. Moreover the n/a gas pistons in the OEM build would need some vitamin "C" for a supercharged application.

Places I would look to strengthen would be the skirts, dropping the top ring to get it away from the supercharged inferno in the combustion chamber. Increasing the ring package spacing for better seal and performance. Tool steel wrist pins and probably some sort of aftermarket rod replacement for the increased torque.

Still at an $8,150 crate MSRP with a real price somewhere lower than that, even with the price of the Whipple this becomes a very attractive engine alternative with a mountain of torque and power.


Ed
Without knowing the design very well, 10.3 and a supercharger on 93 pump gas is nothing these days. I have 11.2:1 and run 11 psi with meth injection and have no issues on 93. You could easily run 8-9 psi on pump with that compression. I had 15 psi on my engine with 10.7 and meth/water injection. Finding the right cam would probably be a bigger issue than adding the supercharger.
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Old 11-17-2020, 09:07 AM
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Without knowing the design very well, 10.3 and a supercharger on 93 pump gas is nothing these days. I have 11.2:1 and run 11 psi with meth injection and have no issues on 93. You could easily run 8-9 psi on pump with that compression. I had 15 psi on my engine with 10.7 and meth/water injection. Finding the right cam would probably be a bigger issue than adding the supercharger.
The reason you can run that boost with your compression is the water/meth injection. That substantially raises the octane of your 93 octane gas so as to prevent detonation. Without the meth injection you would be forced to pull timing to prevent detonation. As you pull timing your engine power output plummets spectacularly offsetting the reason you elected to supercharge in the first place.


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Old 11-18-2020, 05:39 AM
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The reason you can run that boost with your compression is the water/meth injection. That substantially raises the octane of your 93 octane gas so as to prevent detonation. Without the meth injection you would be forced to pull timing to prevent detonation. As you pull timing your engine power output plummets spectacularly offsetting the reason you elected to supercharge in the first place.


Ed
Yes, I know that, but most modern engines can easily run 8-9 psi on that compression ratio. On the engine I had 10.7 CR, I didn't even have the water/meth coming on to 10 psi, nor did I pull the timing as bad as you claim.

The numbers you are posting were good 20-25 years ago, but not today. If you are going to run 17 psi, yes, drop the CR, but most people aren't going to spin that SC that fast.
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