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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2020, 12:11 PM
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Default Why are the wood 6 bolt pattern steering wheel all dished

My quest is to eventually convert my steering wheel to a Quick Release Steering Hub. The current set up has a Triumph 62-76 column with a flat (not dished) 14 1/2" steering wheel that has a bolt pattern that only fits the original black plastic hub. I have settled on the 6 bolt pattern QRSH but the riveted wood steering wheels with 6 bolt pattern all seem to be dished at least 1 3/4" or more. It fits the car now and I'd like to keep it about the same distance from the cowl. So what I'm seeing is its a 1 3/4" dished steering wheel with 6 bolt pattern and the flat (not dished) are all 9 bolt pattern. If I buy a flat steering wheel that has a 9 bolt pattern, I would need to add a 1/2" thick (9 to 6 bolt) adapter-spacer. I think I've looked every where but I do miss obvious stuff. Does someone make a 14" or 15" flat rived wood steering wheel in a 6 bolt pattern, other than the black padded racing steering wheels?
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Old 10-20-2020, 09:36 PM
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Original steering wheels are 16". Without a dish to the wheel, it would hit or be too close to the cockpit edge and the door for you to get your hands around the wheel.
Larry
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Old 10-21-2020, 12:24 PM
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Did those original steering wheels have a 6 bolt or 9 bolt center bolt hole pattern Back to my thing, Is there anyone that makes the 14 or 15 inch OD riveted wood flat (no dish) steering wheel with the 6 bolt hole pattern that looks appropriate in a Cobra ? What is there about the riveted wood steering wheels that to be flat they must have a 9 bolt hole bolt pattern? I have not found the exception rule.
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Old 10-21-2020, 01:49 PM
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Moto-Lita uses a 92mm PCD with 6 unevenly spaced fasteners on the original Cobra and also any Replica Cobra's designed for the original Moto-Lita steering wheels. The reason for the dish in the wheel is, as Larry (LMH) already indicated, to clear the cockpit edge and the door allowing easier entry and exit from the car.

To my knowledge there is no steering wheel manufacturer that makes the wheel you are looking for, because both authenticity and vehicle fitment precludes its use. As is typical of a no demand type of product, there is an accompanying no commercial availability attribute.

That does not mean you can not get one. It just means you need to find a manufacturer that is willing to build a one off steering wheel for you, that they likely will never sell again. That usually comes with a fair amount of reticence on the part of the manufacturer to build the custom steering wheel and is accompanied by a corresponding price point you likely will find unattractive — assuming you can find a manufacturer willing to play ball.


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Last edited by eschaider; 10-21-2020 at 04:04 PM.. Reason: Spelling & Grammar
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Old 10-21-2020, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
That does not mean you can not get one. It just means you need to find a manufacturer that is willing to build a one off steering wheel for you, that they likely will never sell again. That usually comes with a fair amount of reticence on the part of the manufacturer to build the custom steering wheel and is accompanied by a corresponding price point you likely will find unattractive — assuming you can find a manufacturer willing to play ball.
Well, WTF. Considering how much dough we piss away on these stupid cars, what's another steering-wheel's worth....
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Old 10-21-2020, 02:05 PM
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Well, WTF. Considering how much dough we piss away on these stupid cars, what's another steering-wheel's worth....
Yea, ain't that the truth ...


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Old 10-21-2020, 02:28 PM
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There is a flat one for a Jaguar XKE, but it uses holes on the 3 spokes instead of slots.
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Old 10-21-2020, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMH View Post
Original steering wheels are 16". Without a dish to the wheel, it would hit or be too close to the cockpit edge and the door for you to get your hands around the wheel.
Larry
And the steering wheels used with cam and follower steering were subject to catastrophic failures (break spoke or spokes). The flat wheels flex spokes if users push or pull on the rims. Fatigue cracks follow. I used to see multiple original Cobras with all kinds of home grown repairs for cracked or broken spokes. One warm spring day I was watching CSX2108 being driven hard at the drag strip in Tulsa Oklahoma. The driver got so excited after a really good quick pass he literally jerked the rim off the hub. From the stands we saw the car angle off and go way out in the grass as it slowed. The driver got the car back to the pits slowly. When he got there the steering wheel rim was lying in the passenger’s seat and he was steering by hanging on to two of the three stubs of broken spokes.

The dished wheels for CSX2126 and later cars were much stronger in resisting flex and resistant to fracturing.
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Last edited by Dan Case; 10-21-2020 at 06:04 PM.. Reason: add detail
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Old 10-21-2020, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael C Henry View Post
Did those original steering wheels have a 6 bolt or 9 bolt center bolt hole pattern Back to my thing, Is there anyone that makes the 14 or 15 inch OD riveted wood flat (no dish) steering wheel with the 6 bolt hole pattern that looks appropriate in a Cobra ? What is there about the riveted wood steering wheels that to be flat they must have a 9 bolt hole bolt pattern? I have not found the exception rule.
Early Cobras did use a flat wheel though the steering shaft and hub is farther back in the cockpit. It wasn't the later six bolt hub but I don't know exactly what the hub bolt pattern looks like. I've never taken one apart. It's larger than the later hub.



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Old 10-22-2020, 04:04 AM
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Larry's correct. The 6 bolt pattern is much larger on the flat spoke wheels on early cars.
Interesting comments from Dan regarding the stress cracking. A dished wheel is inherently much stronger by design.

Here's another pic of a flat wheel that gives a bit more perspective (it's CSX2005)

Name:  1962_260_Cobra_CSX2005_dash.jpg
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:30 PM
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Why would a dished steering wheel version be stronger than a flat. I've read about different spoke materials like aluminum, chromed I assume steel, and Stainless steel. Price ranges from so low i have doubts about it being actually intended for a car and not game console. I intend on buying one new steering wheel about 14 or 15 inch OD flat as possible. The whole idea of installing a Quick Release Steering Hub is ease of getting in and out. I do not need the steering wheel much closer to me as it sits now. I have watched videos where the steering wheels broke while being installed warning to take care when buying cheap wheels. I agree there is such a thing as too cheap. What would be the price for a good solid appropriate steering wheel anyway?
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Old 10-23-2020, 11:06 PM
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A dished wheel would be stronger since the spokes form a triangle as viewed from the edge of the wheel.

A dish wheel also places the rim closer to the driver in relation to the hub face.

The hub face is solid, where as the rim has some give.
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Last edited by Gaz64; 10-24-2020 at 10:19 PM..
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Old 10-24-2020, 12:04 AM
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Firstly, if you do buy a good quality “flat” steering wheel – for example a Moto-Lita – you won’t have any problems. In fact, most, if not all of the Moto-Lita wheels to suit period Jaguars are flat, and they would certainly be strong enough.

To your question –
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael C Henry View Post
Why would a dished steering wheel version be stronger than a flat...
…. If you consider a steering wheel, with the horizontal direction being the X-axis, the vertical direction is the Y-axis, and the fore-aft direction is the Z-axis.
With a flat wheel, the Z-axis is zero length, so there is no extra resistance to a deflection of the rim in the Z direction.
Add Z depth, as is the case with a dished wheel, and you have in fact triangulated the wheel (as Gary has mentioned) in the Z direction, making it much more able to resist bending when deflection forces are applied.

Cheers!
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Old 10-24-2020, 11:36 AM
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The pic below is a "flat" Moto-Lita steering wheel for a Jaguar. Predictably, because it is for a Jaguar, it it uses a Jaguar 77.8mm PCD with six attaching holes.



From the picture above it appears that the Jagusr attachment hole spacing is not equidistant.

The challenge with using this wheel on a Cobra is both the attaching bolt PCD (most Cobra's use a 62.5mm PCD) and the fastener placement on the PCD. Cobra's use a different non evenly spaced bolt pattern and Jaguar (appears) to use their own proprietary pattern. The difference in fastener placement and spline positioning on your steering hub will produce a steering wheel 'clocking' issue, when the car is going in a straight line, that will need to be resolved.

If this steering wheel or one similar to it is what you are looking for you have several choices;

Choice 1:

Make or have made an adapter to allow use of this (or similar) wheel on your existing Cobra PCD and attaching bolt pattern.

Choice 2:

Hake or have made a new hub for your steering column with the Jaguar attaching bolt pattern and PCD

Choice 3:

Check your existing hub to see if it is large enough to accommodate the mounting flange surface and register the Jaguar wheel requires. If it is, then remove the hub, to allow remachining of the hub to provide a Jaguar style register and attachment holes and reposition it on the steering column.

If this alternative is chosen don't forget to redesign the hub so the steering wheel is at 12 o'clock when the car is going straight forward.

Choice 4:

Find a Steering wheel manufacturer that is willing to make a steering wheel you like that will attach to your existing steering wheel hub.

Choice 5:

Use a commercially available dished Cobra steering wheel and forego the flat wheel design you are looking for.

I may have missed something but I believe those five choices are logically the alternatives available to you.

The only thing that remains for you to do, is to choose the alternative you prefer.


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Old 10-24-2020, 01:05 PM
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Choice #1. Just order a circular piece of billet aluminum off one of the internet metal suppliers. They'll cut it in a circle to your specified diameter and it will look perfect. Choose a thickness that appeals to you, allows for countersinking, and drill it appropriately. That's less than a two hour job and it will look OEM if you do it right.
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Old 10-24-2020, 09:34 PM
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Choice #1. Just order a circular piece of billet aluminum off one of the internet metal suppliers. They'll cut it in a circle to your specified diameter and it will look perfect. Choose a thickness that appeals to you, allows for countersinking, and drill it appropriately. That's less than a two hour job and it will look OEM if you do it right.
— a wise man ...


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Old 10-25-2020, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
....it appears that the Jaguar attachment hole spacing is not equidistant.....
Flat Moto-Lita wheels for Jaguars come with a few different attaching hole patterns....
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Old 10-25-2020, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by xb-60 View Post
Flat Moto-Lita wheels for Jaguars come with a few different attaching hole patterns....
You are right, Glen!

Although I skipped the large PCD and 9 bolt attachment scheme wheels because of the additional complexity involved in adapting them, that last Jag wheel in your line up escaped me.

If I am not mistaken, that is a Mk 2 type Jaguar wheel. The PCD looks quite similar to the 62.5mm Cobra PCD and might provide a good alternative starting point — obviously still requiring an adapter be made and of course proper clocking of the new wheel.

Thanks for the search effort and the heads up. I should have found that wheel — ahhhh, the advancing years .


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Old 10-25-2020, 01:53 PM
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Now, after finding that there are so many different steering wheel bolt patterns available the steering wheel will be chosen once I find the bolt pattern for the Quick Release Steering Hub I intend on using. My intention is to use an Ididit QRSH conversion. To convert my steering set up. As I looked at various photos I thought they were using generic photos that would make the center and its bolt configuration as compared to the outer rim seem out of proportion.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:35 AM
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Default response from Ididit

I received a response from Derek Auten a tech @ Ididit. He said their 6 bolt QRSH hub fits MOMO, Sparco, NRG, Sabelt. Is there any others that are the same?
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