A Cobra Valuation question

[twobjshelbys]

Is this about that old topic:

1966 427 Cobra for rent?

???

That topic also was a CSX3000 loss of use but not from damage but from possession.

Seems there is a sordid story...

Why don't you be straight about what problem you are trying to solve? Over two years later.

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Is this about that old topic:

1966 427 Cobra for rent?

???

That topic also was a CSX3000 loss of use but not from damage but from possession.

Seems there is a sordid story...

Why don't you be straight about what problem you are trying to solve? Over two years later.

Yes, that Loss of Use case is ongoing. However, I was asking about valuations of race-driven Cobras, 289s vs. 427s, etc. Answers to those two questions are a part of the bigger picture. So, how was I not being straight? Should I have repeated the whole Loss of Use scenario again, as well? How would my mentioning that affect how someone answered or shed light upon the two questions that I asked? No nefarious plans here, @twobjshelbys, just looking for answers from people who know a lot about this stuff. Put your badge and gun back in the drawer.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

Yes, that Loss of Use case is ongoing. However, I was asking about valuations of race-driven Cobras, 289s vs. 427s, etc. Answers to those two questions are a part of the bigger picture. So, how was I not being straight? Should I have repeated the whole Loss of Use scenario again, as well? How would my mentioning that affect how someone answered or shed light upon the two questions that I asked? No nefarious plans here, @twobjshelbys, just looking for answers from people who know a lot about this stuff. Put your badge and gun back in the drawer.

If the car is an original CSX2000 or CSX3000, with documented, 60’s period racing history, then yes, there could be a loss of value. Any at built after the originals were out of production are just replicas of the original and value would be that of a similar vehicle. You’ll have to be far more forthcoming with a specific chassis to be able to ascertain value, or loss of value. There is no magic ball here, each cars value is asked on that car’s documented history.

Bill S

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

If the car is an original CSX2000 or CSX3000, with documented, 60’s period racing history, then yes, there could be a loss of value. Any at built after the originals were out of production are just replicas of the original and value would be that of a similar vehicle. You’ll have to be far more forthcoming with a specific chassis to be able to ascertain value, or loss of value. There is no magic ball here, each cars value is asked on that car’s documented history.

Bill S

The car is CSX3145. My questions aren't really specific to this car or the loss of use matter, I just want to know, in general, are raced Cobras the only ones of historical significance and whether 289s are more desirable than 427s (because they were raced vs. 427s which were not?) Thank you, Bill.

[mrmustang]

Disclaimer: The following is just my two cents on the subject, if you like it, great, if you don't, sorry, but this is a public "DISCUSSION" forum and you post here, of your own free will, we did not force you to do so.

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

The car is CSX3145. My questions aren't really specific to this car or the loss of use matter, I just want to know, in general, are raced Cobras the only ones of historical significance and whether 289s are more desirable than 427s (because they were raced vs. 427s which were not?) Thank you, Bill.

The problem with CSX3145 is that it was never "professionally raced", so there is no vintage records of logbooks for the car from any racing organizations. As such, then yes, whatever racing the car may have done, is inconsequential to the value of the car. Historical documents, from racing organizations may negate my statement, but once again, without them, it's just folk lore for the car and it's previous ownership chain. In other words, value is set at time of ownership being changed. In the 70's, the value was very little, but a value just the same was set between a seller, and a buyer. As time goes by, this same time related value, between buyer and seller, is once again set. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now, my thoughts on the issues at hand (remembering, only the lawyers, and folks like yourself, will be paid, no matter how the courts find at the end of the suit) in regards to the legal wrangling currently going on, and yes, I know you did not ask, but I'm putting it out there just the same:

As far as ownership history goes, the "swap" as noted in the history is the deciding factor, what was swapped for, at that time, a non operable vehicle that was not worth what it is today? Was it an equitable swap "at that time". Did Dennis not bother to title it in his name because it was just a project car at that time? There are many here who have done the same, which muddies the waters even further. Yet, if the title to the car, was signed by Dennis's brother, who was then swapping the car to Dennis for whatever the other side of the equation was, then Dennis's brother holds no rights to the car, whether it was retitled or not. So, when Dennis sold the car in 1989, the sales was between Dennis and the other party, with his brother being owned nothing else, as he had already received his compensation in the earlier transaction.

Bill S.

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Disclaimer: The following is just my two cents on the subject, if you like it, great, if you don't, sorry, but this is a public "DISCUSSION" forum and you post here, of your own free will, we did not force you to do so.



The problem with CSX3145 is that it was never "professionally raced", so there is no vintage records of logbooks for the car from any racing organizations. As such, then yes, whatever racing the car may have done, is inconsequential to the value of the car. Historical documents, from racing organizations may negate my statement, but once again, without them, it's just folk lore for the car and it's previous ownership chain. In other words, value is set at time of ownership being changed. In the 70's, the value was very little, but a value just the same was set between a seller, and a buyer. As time goes by, this same time related value, between buyer and seller, is once again set. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now, my thoughts on the issues at hand (remembering, only the lawyers, and folks like yourself, will be paid, no matter how the courts find at the end of the suit) in regards to the legal wrangling currently going on, and yes, I know you did not ask, but I'm putting it out there just the same:

As far as ownership history goes, the "swap" as noted in the history is the deciding factor, what was swapped for, at that time, a non operable vehicle that was not worth what it is today? Was it an equitable swap "at that time". Did Dennis not bother to title it in his name because it was just a project car at that time? There are many here who have done the same, which muddies the waters even further. Yet, if the title to the car, was signed by Dennis's brother, who was then swapping the car to Dennis for whatever the other side of the equation was, then Dennis's brother holds no rights to the car, whether it was retitled or not. So, when Dennis sold the car in 1989, the sales was between Dennis and the other party, with his brother being owned nothing else, as he had already received his compensation in the earlier transaction.

Bill S.

Thank you, Bill. The courts will eventually decide on the ownership issue. My job is to try to determine Loss of Use which is the amount necessary to rent a similar vehicle for the amount of time the owner was without the car. . There isn't any possibility of actually renting a Cobra so, thus far, I am working on a comparable dollar amount basis which led me to a million-dollar Bugatti that was available to rent. And, to complicate matters, as @Buzz pointed out in the post that followed yours, values for CSX 3145 would have varied over the years, work has been done on the car., other intangibles...my research shows that a raced car would increase, rather than decrease the value of a Cobra - but not by much - and that the 289s do not have a solid reputation for being more valuable. These things were alleged by the "expert" working for the adverse party so I came here to run them down. Thank you.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

Thank you, Bill. The courts will eventually decide on the ownership issue. My job is to try to determine Loss of Use which is the amount necessary to rent a similar vehicle for the amount of time the owner was without the car. .

What timeline (IE: what year) is the start of "the time without the car" ?

Again, no documented or historically significant race history on the car, so no added value in that regard.

Bill S.