A Cobra Valuation question

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

The car in question was stored in a barn in 1980. The owners, XXXX XXXX asked XXXX’ brother, XXXX, to store the car at his property in XXXX. In 2018, after Mr. XXXX passing, Mrs. XXXX learned that XXXX sold the car without a title which is in her possession and without her knowledge.

Mrs XXXX may have a copy of the cars title, but perhaps Mr XXXX had requested a duplicate title for the car, having not been able to find the original at the time of "trade" between Mr XXXX and his brother. The DMV would need to dig deep in to their archives in an attempt to find whether a duplicate title was ever requested.

Now, where I find a slight hiccup in Mrs XXXX assertion of "loss of use", since the car was inoperable, there was no use at that time, and even if there was, Mr XXXX's brother could have easily charged $100 or more a month in storage fees between 1980 and 2018. Say $100-$500 a month is the going rate for indoor storage of an inoperable "collector car", times that by 38 years, and your storage costs are quite costly . As an inoperable car, with no meaningful racing history, stored correctly or not, but now needing $400,000+ in restoration, strictly from sitting unused for 38 years.....Now you want to speak about value, or value due to loss of use.......Well, I think you get where I'm going with this..

In closing, as they say, there are three sides to a story, his story, her story, and the truth............

I'll leave it at that, for now.

Bill S.

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Mrs XXXX may have a copy of the cars title, but perhaps Mr XXXX had requested a duplicate title for the car, having not been able to find the original at the time of "trade" between Mr XXXX and his brother. The DMV would need to dig deep in to their archives in an attempt to find whether a duplicate title was ever requested.

Now, where I find a slight hiccup in Mrs XXXX assertion of "loss of use", since the car was inoperable, there was no use at that time, and even if there was, Mr XXXX's brother could have easily charged $100 or more a month in storage fees between 1980 and 2018. Say $100-$500 a month is the going rate for indoor storage of an inoperable "collector car", times that by 38 years, and your storage costs are quite costly . As an inoperable car, with no meaningful racing history, stored correctly or not, but now needing $400,000+ in restoration, strictly from sitting unused for 38 years.....Now you want to speak about value, or value due to loss of use.......Well, I think you get where I'm going with this..

In closing, as they say, there are three sides to a story, his story, her story, and the truth............

I'll leave it at that, for now.

Bill S.

Hi Bill, The inner workings of who promised whom, storage issues, etc. aren't my concern. BTW, the car was not inoperable from 1980 to 2018. During that time period it had a spun bearing repaired and was given a paint job.

The adverse party is alleging that this car, in good working order, wasn't worth nearly as much as either a raced Cobra, a wide hip or a 289. This is what I'm either going to agree with or dispute. From what I have learned from various sources, raced cars (289s) may be worth a little more, wide-hipped models are not worth more and non-raced 289s are worth less.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

Hi Bill, The inner workings of who promised whom, storage issues, etc. aren't my concern. BTW, the car was not inoperable from 1980 to 2018. During that time period it had a spun bearing repaired and was given a paint job.

The adverse party is alleging that this car, in good working order, wasn't worth nearly as much as either a raced Cobra, a wide hip or a 289. This is what I'm either going to agree with or dispute. From what I have learned from various sources, raced cars (289s) may be worth a little more, wide-hipped models are not worth more and non-raced 289s are worth less.

A car raced vs a car not raced, in original Cobra circles depends on where it was raced, who sponsored the car, and who the drivers were. Additionally, where the car(s) in question finished in those races. Then we can go for the originality of the car, and all of it's components. Repaints can hurt the value of the car, missing major original components can and due hurt the value of a car not raced. Originality is key when it comes to the top value of a car with no race history, as the car in question apparently is. Is the original date coded, drivetrain intact? What about all the minor items like hoses, belts, dated hose clamps, suspension pieces, etc and so forth? What about the repaint, was the car stripped to bare metal and properly prepped and repainted, yup, you guessed it, another ding to the valuation of the car. Modifications from stock, another ding in valuation. As stated earlier, each car is valued on it's own, against itself, so using any other car for a valuation of what is, or what is not, is like asking what shade of blue the sky is over my head vs over your head, 100's, if not 1,000's of miles away from each other. So far, I've yet to see anything that can quantify the value of the car in question, at the time it was placed into storage, vs the cars value now, which quite frankly, appears to be the only real motivation of you as the poster, to get involved. Are you an interested 3rd party in the case for one side or the other? Or perhaps just a keyboard jockey hoping to "break the case wide open with your skills of deduction" using what is posted here by others as your "own exhaustive research". No offense, but those of us who have been around here for the last 20+ years, have seen it before.

So, value now, vs value then, and whether there was a verbal agreement to store the car for a set time period, at which time, if a fee was not paid, or another term between the two brothers was not met, the car could be sold. Or again, perhaps the idea of a duplicate title being presented to the brother of the old owner is the nail on the head. As time goes by, memories become foggy, and items thought to be fact, may not always be the case. Fast forward to now, and greed has sadly thrown into the mix....Greed and someone, perhaps a relative, guiding the wife of the dearly departed down a path that she should never have followed. He said, she said, they said, all irrelevant as the husband has departed this world, and any conversations he had with his brother are now consider hearsay, unless of course there is something in writing that you failed to previously mention. Again, all for the courts and attorneys to opine , all while billing their clients with glee.

Bill S.

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

A car raced vs a car not raced, in original Cobra circles depends on where it was raced, who sponsored the car, and who the drivers were. Additionally, where the car(s) in question finished in those races. Then we can go for the originality of the car, and all of it's components. Repaints can hurt the value of the car, missing major original components can and due hurt the value of a car not raced. Originality is key when it comes to the top value of a car with no race history, as the car in question apparently is. Is the original date coded, drivetrain intact? What about all the minor items like hoses, belts, dated hose clamps, suspension pieces, etc and so forth? What about the repaint, was the car stripped to bare metal and properly prepped and repainted, yup, you guessed it, another ding to the valuation of the car. Modifications from stock, another ding in valuation. As stated earlier, each car is valued on it's own, against itself, so using any other car for a valuation of what is, or what is not, is like asking what shade of blue the sky is over my head vs over your head, 100's, if not 1,000's of miles away from each other. So far, I've yet to see anything that can quantify the value of the car in question, at the time it was placed into storage, vs the cars value now, which quite frankly, appears to be the only real motivation of you as the poster, to get involved. Are you an interested 3rd party in the case for one side or the other? Or perhaps just a keyboard jockey hoping to "break the case wide open with your skills of deduction" using what is posted here by others as your "own exhaustive research". No offense, but those of us who have been around here for the last 20+ years, have seen it before.

So, value now, vs value then, and whether there was a verbal agreement to store the car for a set time period, at which time, if a fee was not paid, or another term between the two brothers was not met, the car could be sold. Or again, perhaps the idea of a duplicate title being presented to the brother of the old owner is the nail on the head. As time goes by, memories become foggy, and items thought to be fact, may not always be the case. Fast forward to now, and greed has sadly thrown into the mix....Greed and someone, perhaps a relative, guiding the wife of the dearly departed down a path that she should never have followed. He said, she said, they said, all irrelevant as the husband has departed this world, and any conversations he had with his brother are now consider hearsay, unless of course there is something in writing that you failed to previously mention. Again, all for the courts and attorneys to opine , all while billing their clients with glee.

Bill S.

Your insult aside, I am not getting paid for this. The attorneys are a different matter but they aren't here asking for help, I am. Thanks.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

Your insult aside, I am not...

Yeah, Bill... we need some more couth around here.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

Your insult aside, I am not getting paid for this. The attorneys are a different matter but they aren't here asking for help, I am. Thanks.

No insult at all, my comment on greed comes from the old saying "greed makes good people do bad things". Since you have never fully stated here that you are a curious bystander, nor have you offered full disclosure as to your participation in the matter at hand, or what "other forum" is having a discussion on the car in question, your posts here remain "suspect" at that very least.

You have already shown you can dish it out, we expect you to be able to take it in return.

Of course, with that said, care to post the link to the "other forum" where this discussion appears to have brought you here for better information, and/or clarification as to what constitutes value ad, or value deduction in the case of a "non operable" car, stuck into storage, then sold, by the brother of the owner who may or may not have had a duplicate title to the car from the old owner, under what you consider questionable circumstances?


Bueller, Bueller, Bueller


Bill S.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Of course, with that said, care to post the link to the "other forum" where this discussion appears to have brought you here for better information, and/or clarification as to what constitutes value ad, or value deduction in the case of a "non operable" car, stuck into storage, then sold, by the brother of the owner who may or may not have had a duplicate title to the car from the old owner, under what you consider questionable circumstances?


Bueller, Bueller, Bueller


Bill S.

Oh you mean like asking for credentials?

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

care to post the link to the "other forum" where this discussion appears to have brought you here
Bueller, Bueller, Bueller
Bill S.

I haven't done research in any other forum and (without looking through all of my posts) I don't believe I ever wrote that. I wrote that much of what I have learned from this river of information has led me down other tributaries of knowledge. For all of the help that I have received, my sincerest thanks.

As to my motives...all I asked when I came aboard was whether the 289s are considered more "historically significant than the 427s, whether raced cars were considered far more valuable and how the members felt about wide hip Cobras being more desirable than narrow hip Cobras. These things are being alleged by the adverse party.

My previous foray into this group was to ask whether anyone has heard of a Cobra being available to rent.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

I haven't done research in any other forum and (without looking through all of my posts) I don't believe I ever wrote that. I wrote that much of what I have learned from this river of information has led me down other tributaries of knowledge. For all of the help that I have received, my sincerest thanks.

As to my motives...all I asked when I came aboard was whether the 289s are considered more "historically significant than the 427s, whether raced cars were considered far more valuable and how the members felt about wide hip Cobras being more desirable than narrow hip Cobras. These things are being alleged by the adverse party.

My previous foray into this group was to ask whether anyone has heard of a Cobra being available to rent.

So then, I'll take it, a full disclosure from you, is not forthcoming?

With all of the assistance we have given to you so far, I'd think full disclosure, at this point in time, would be highly advisable. As it is clear to everyone here, you are more involved in this situation than you have lead us to believe.


Bill S.