A new V10 427 ???

[James Baldwin]

Just got my issue of Autoweek. On the cover is a new concept car from Ford called the "427" (a modern day Galaxy 500). Naturally that peaked my interest and upon reading more about it I find it is a 590hp V-10 427ci engine.

Here is the kicker...

According to the article, they built two of these engines (based on the 4.6 DOHC Cobra engine). One is in this concept car and the other is in an "as-yet undisclosed mustang"... hmmmm


This engine has "Double Venom" written all over it.

[Jeb]

Ford has had a Triton (truck) V-10 out for a while in 5.4L and 6.8L sizes.

I assume they rounded 6.8L up to 7.0L and converted that to 427 cu inches. Close enough all things considered. In normal form, this truck engine isn't a big HP producer, more about torque than anything else. I'd have to assume that in order to get more than 1 HP/cube they'd have to have a supercharger involved.

6.8-LITRE TRITON V10 ENGINE
The 6.8-litre Triton V10 engine features a split-pin crank design for even firing. The resulting imbalance, typical of any even-firing V8 engine, is cancelled out with the balance shaft. The result is noise reduction and improved vibration and harshness (NVLI) characteristics and durability. High flow water pumps enhance the V10's cooling. A new aluminium radiator with a remote fill design system and upgraded fans and fan clutches promote cooling efficiency.

The engines feature a fail-safe cooling strategy, built into the EBC-V engine processor. This alerts the driver to overheating or loss of coolant and begins an alternating sequence of cross-bank, half-cylinder firing to protect the engine against damage.

7L is probably the absolute displacement limit on this Triton engine, so unless the 'mine is bigger than yours' competition moves on to cylinder counts, I think the truck engine of choice for Cobras will remain the 460 with the Viper V10 (proven capable of 500+ displacement) a close, if not equal, second.

Finally, size-wise. The Triton V-10 is a huge engine, and not just in width, but in height as well. Fully dressed, the Ford V-10 probably stands a solid 4 feet tall, if not more. Look at the new Cobra R's; in order to fit the 5.4L DOHC engine in them they had to not only railse the hood, but put a 'cowl induction' (nudge nudge) bulge in it to clear the engine. I don't think this family of engines is going to go easily into that good Cobra. Plus it's kind of a messy looking engine with all the wires, hoses and sensors, wide as it is tall as it is long. A beachball of an engine with Borg garnishments.

[James Baldwin]

Actually it is a DOHC V10 version of the Mustang Cobra 4.6.

In other words, a modern day cammer with two more cams. In the picture there is no Supercharger

[Jeb]

The 5.4L V8 is just a tall-deck 4.6L V8 (Holy Shades of Windsordom Batman!).
The 6.8L is just a tall-deck version of the 4.6L with an extra pair of cylinders cast on. As for the DOHC vs SOHC heads. Not that big a problem, though a little more involved than the old Cleveland/Windsor mountings (involving the front cover).

As for the supercharger, look in the valley area carefully. I seriously doubt they'd get 590HP from 427 cubic inches without one. The modulars have a lot of room in the valley and often feed the manifold from a blower located there (UP into the manifold). I believe some even manage to put not only the blower, but the intercooler there as well. With the added length of a 10 cylinder, the packaging becomes even easier.

It's still a humongous engine. The new GT isn't 43.5" tall instead of 40" for no reason. The 5.4L, with prominent supercharger (for cosmetics) is one talllllll engine.

The Ford 500/Galaxie/whatever is a tall car with a tall passenger space and correspondingly tall engine bay that could handle such a beachball of an engine. Supposedly somewhere mid-point between a mini-van and a sedan. The 427/7L designation is just another bow to the past recalling Galaxie 7 liters from the early '60's to the target market (why all the focus on a market that's going to buy at most one or two more cars in its lifetime is something I'd like to hear explained...maybe someone from Buick can jump in here...)

I am really tired of the Ford tease machine. I wish they'd actually put something out there, for a decent price, that shows they're more than a bunch of namby-pamby's.

[Satanpez]

I would imagine a 6.8 with nikasil bores would pull out 7 liters.

-steve in nj-

[James Baldwin]

.

[James Baldwin]

...

[Excaliber]

With "Borg" stuff on the motor. Cool, I like the Borg technology.

Ernie

[mr bruce]

Step into the future ,or get outta the way.

[Jeb]

The picture looks good. I notice you can't see the area where a blower pulley would project out though.

Doing the math, 7L over 4.6L equals 1.52 more displacement, but 590HP over 300 HP for a 4.6L equals 1.967 more HP, almost twice the HP but only 1.5 times the displacement. Something does not compute.

And if it does compute, why isn't Ford producing 590 HP divided by 1.52 ratio for a 388 HP 4.6L today? Where's my NA 390 HP 4.6L Mustang 'vert? Better yet, where's my 400HP 4.6L T-Bird for under $40K????

Ford has become such a wuss-comglomerent since the days of Total Performance. Nothing but cars/vehicles that women feel safe in and that wouldn't raise the pulse of a person on a gurney who's hearing 'CLEAR!'. Sad demise for a once-vital culture.

I'm sure we'll all see more and learn more when the car is trotted out at the various auto shows, starting with Detroits's.

[SFfiredog]

It is easy for ford to build a naturally aspirated 590 hp 427 V10 in concept form.
In prduction form with emisson, fuel, and noise requrements in place I'm sure the horsepower would (will?) drop consiserably.

Too bad we'll realistically never see it.

.--Mike

[TomH]

Actually the HP/L (84.3/L) is in line with the recently announced 5.0 "Cammer" (85/L) based upon the 4.6 modular platform. The 5.0 is designed for the aftermarket as a turnkey crate motor and is expected for release early this year.

<A Href="http://www.fordracing.com/news/?article=20906&type=1">"Cammer" Announcement from SEMA</a>

[Jeb]

I seem to be gnawing on this like a dog with a bone, but this just galls the nawls out of me...trumped up hopes and results doled out to the ever-hopeful faithful that Ford will once again actually produce a sensible performance alternative to GM's. By sensible, I mean a combination engine/platform/styling exercise that will actually be affordable, and desireable, and REAL. Claiming 590HP in some gross-gross configuration (I'm not seeing any A/C compressor in that picture either) is bad enough, but to wrap it in some 4-door people hauler aimed at the mommy-set is just rubbing salt in the wound. The really sad thing is, that V10 is in a big 'ol Galaxie would-be that if memory serves me right, needed a ton 'o torque, low down, to work right. Here we get, maybe, 590 HP, but at 6500 RPM!!. Anyone else having difficulty seeing a 4 door SUV with automatic with a 6500RPM screamer under the hood? I know the Taurus SHO was a tremendous sales success, they're trying to duplicate that?

Maybe a T-Bird, with a manual trans. But that'll never happen because Ford has ceded the '2-seat performance for less than $50K' to GM for some reason; anyone who can tell me why would be greatly appreciated.

Instead, Ford's better idea is a 7K RPM screamer engine in a family sedan with an automatic, a $150K+ (probably) limited edition GT with a supercharged truck engine, and a bunch of gelded pony cars, that even when in R configuration, only match a 'vette's performance (for more money though), but come nowhere near its cachet, and come nowhere near the performance or machisimo of the Viper. Which I guess is why so much interest in the original Cobra.

This new 427 would possibly be a better choice for the new GT, GT427? Think of the memories that combo would evoke. And a screamer engine in front of a manual trans in a car like the GT makes way more sense than putting such an engine in a short-hop grocery getter. Heck, just switch engines, put the new 427 in the GT and put that torquey truck engine from the GT into the Galaxie. Problem? The new 427 is at max displacement, nowhere to go, and once everything is hooked up and actual HP numbers are calculated, it'll maybe stay above 500 HP-wise but fall below 500 lb-ft in torque. And the 500/500 combo is needed nowadays with the Viper out there at half the price. And they can't make it a V12 because then why would anyone buy the Aston Martin V12? Putting a supercharger on an engine already at 500 HP just to get the torque numbers up would be too much, they'd be over 700 HP which would be like dropping a hydrogen bomb into the HP race pond. Actually too much (can you believe it).

Did I mention I am really disheartened by Ford management and strategy and direction and current offerings and I have yet to see any hint that things are changing. Bring back Jac!

[Dave Wharran]

I have the new Autoweek.
I love the engine.
The car it's in though is UGLY.
My 2 cents worth, but it looks like it was mashed flat on all 4 sides. Many of today's designs look like they were penned by someone that loved 70's B sci fi movies or 90's transformers cartoons.
Technology is neat. Technology that is UGLY is still neat, but I would never spend my money on it.
That engine in a decent looking car.....

Dave

[Aussie Mike]

Hi Jeb,

I can't see a problem with the V10 making those sort of numbers without a blower. We have some hot production cars with an aussie version of the 5.4 motor that make nearly 400HP off the showroom floor in a mild state of tune. A significant increase in capacity to 7 litres should be able to produce the power they've quoted without a blower.

This is the new Ford BA Falcon GT

http://www.fordperformancevehicles.c...?link_id=2.161

The new Holden (GM Australia) Monaro HRT427 is quoted as making 560HP out of 427 cubic inches naturally aspirated. You will be getting the less muscular little brother to this car soon (but badged as the new Pontiac GTO in the US). This is emissions legal in Australia too and we have some tough emissions laws.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...ar.mv&num=1488

http://www.hsv.com.au/main.html

Hot family sedans are very popular down here and only recently has Holden started making a coupe again. Maybe the marketing guys in the US are trying to encourage some of that trend over there?

Cheers

[James Baldwin]

I'm moving to Australia... At least you have fun, affordable cars.

[Jeb]

whoa!!!!

forget Autoweek. Just got today's Sunday Car Section about the Detroit Auto Show. The 2005 mustang is going to be a two seater with a 400 (albeit supercharged) modular engine and possibly a paddle shifter!!! And, it actually looks pretty good.

If this actually comes out, then I'll have to take everything I've said about Ford back. I hope so, I pray so, please Ford, make it so.

As for 7L V10's, when it hits the parking lots available for sale, then I'll believe it, otherwise all I can remember is that a 2x4 427 Hemi Cammer was rated at around 640HP with 14:1 compression; if Ford can equal that with an emissions-compliant modular, more power to them. But I know you could actually buy, and take delivery of the original Cammer, so far, I haven't seen any of this V10's opened crates.

Also news today, at least to me, SVT has shown the newest version of their pickup truck, which uses the 5.4L supercharged engine first introduced for projected use in the new Ford GT supercar. Yes indeed folks, don't spend the $150K on the GT, just buy the truck. It'll even come with a 6 speed manual and independent rear suspension and "Super-Cooler" technology (gives an extra 50HP for 30 seconds or so, on demand). Where is Ford manglement leading them?

[Satanpez]

I'll believe the Mustang if I see it.

And if that is what they produce, I'll bet that you won't see it for long.

The reason why the Mustang is so popular is because it's *cheap*

Those thousands of 6 cyl automatics that are sold to Rent-A-Car companies make them cheap enough for the platform to be used for Cobras.

From the pictures I've seen, I like the car. But it seems like another Nissan Z.

I for one tho, will be happy when the mustang is on the DEW98 platform.

-steve in nj-

[TomH]

DEW98 Mustang? That would be a T-Bird/LS.

DEW98 "Lite"?

[Satanpez]

It's DEW98.

As per another article, it will have steel instead of forged aluminum suspension bits.

But, I doubt they can screw up the dew98 to make it as flexible as the Fox platform.

-steve in nj-