ERA vs SPF

[Mark IV]

If this is the car I think it is, it was originally owned by Jim Wright and it is SUPERB!

A fabulous street type Cobra, very well done and detailed. The car is as close to a "stealth sleeper" as a Cobra can be.

VERY well worth the money asked, in fact guys THIS IS A SCREAMIN" DEAL!!!!!!!!

Rick

[Turk]

There is a lot more difference betweeen the two cars than to simply dismiss it as "$10-$15K more, and a bit more authentic".

Most ERA's are powered by a 427 and support a show quality finish. People planning on doing a backyard paint job, normally do not buy an ERA.

If you were to install a 427 Side Oiler in both cars the price difference would not be $15K.

Frankly I have not seen a poorly finished ERA. That is not to say there are not any, just that, I haven't seen one.

As for SPF, they are pretty much finished the same way. Good Finish. The two cars are different in fit and finish. Neither are bad, nor are they perfect.
There is really a little more than that meets the eye.
There is a reason why ERA has a long wait. They don't feel they can crank up the production without loosing some of what makes that car what it is.

A I have friends who own SPFs and have seen them close up, I can't find anything bad to say about the car for what you pay for it. Heck of a buy....but I am afraid it is no ERA.

I have ridden in Toyotas, they are great. Are they Lexus'es?
How to say ERA is better without putting down SPF is tough to do.

Let me try this. If the two cars were the same price and neither had a long wait, and cost the same....which one would you prefer?

In my case the wait wasn't what it is today, I chose the ERA.

TURK

[Allan A]

TURK

Let me look in my ball, I see a an ERA in your future

[Turk]

Yes THERE is!!

TURK

[BANDIT 1]

I think the one thing Turk and others are not thinking about is that the ERA and the Superformance Cobra's are made for two very different reasons. Everyone gets caught up in this "original" thing, they make the assumption that everyone wants a "original" Cobra or a exact "replica".

Let's look at some facts about the "original" 427 S/C Cobra...

1. The legacy to most people is not that the Cobra won every race it ever entered, the legacy is that every year up until the mid 1980's when a magazine made a list of the "Fastest Production Cars", the Cobra was always number one! (12.2 1/4 mile @ 118 mph/ 0-100-0 13.2 seconds)

2. The car is awesome looking (men respect it and women love it)!

3. A "original" Cobra is very expensive.

4. As legend goes the 427 S/C Cobra is a deathtrap, the race car drivers didn't even want to sit in the car. While some of this is contributed to the tire technology of the day, the rest is the 1960's Chassis design.

ERA COBRA:

I think some people have "hit the nail on the head" when they say that the ERA is the most authentic Cobra replica/kit car made (The Kirkham and Shelby "continuation Cobra's" are exact also...). They have kept to the original lines right down to the 485 - 500 Horsepower FE engined 427 S.O engine and fans in the grill. My only reasoning for not going with a ERA Cobra was very simple, most owners that I have met have 500 horsepower 427 S.O. 4 speed cars running in the low 12's with street tires (just like the originals). I also have seen some ERA's that the owners have as much money in them as the Shelby "Continuation Cobra" prices. If I was going to spend that much on a "exact replica", I would probably buy a used "Continuation Shelby Cobra" (or one of the "authorized" Kirkham Cobra's).

SUPERFORMANCE COBRA:

The Superformance Cobra's are built to be a "modern day" Cobra.
They use a race tested chassis and use all new parts. While the Superformance Cobra's don't look exactly like the original, that was never there intention (or else they would have the fans up front, etc...). While Superformance wanted there cars to look "close" to original looking, they didn't mind slight changes. With dealerships like the Olthoffs the Superformance cars get "raced" to the limit. Because of this heavy testing, Superformance comes out with many different upgrades (suspension, shocks, etc...) to make the cars even more faster and stable. I didn't need my car to be 100% exact, after all my Cobra has "modern" American Racing wheels on it. I think if someone wanted a Superformance Cobra to look "original" (to 99% of the people), all they would have to do is have the front fans installed and the car lowered. I felt that when I was done with my Cobra it would have atleast 650 horsepower (1,000 horsepower soon... Nitrous/supercharger). That is why I didn't buy a "continuation Shelby Cobra" or a Kirkham. If the Shelby and Kirkham Cobra's are almost 100% identical to the originals and with 500 horsepower the race car drivers of that era were afraid to drive these cars, what makes me think I can handle a "original style car" with 650 + horsepower? My Superformance Cobra with a 650 horsepower 520 c.i. Big Block drives as easily and predictable as any modern supercar (and that is with no traction control or any other modern systems).

It really comes down to this...

If you want a awesome looking "original" looking Cobra then the ERA is a no brainer!

If you want one of the fastest Cobra's (and live to tell about it), you go with a Superformance Cobra's. Ask the road racers which they prefer, a 427 FE powered 500 horsepower ERA Cobra or a "Stroker" 351 500 horsepower Superformance Cobra. Ask any Drag racer if they would rather have a 427 FE powered 500 horsepower FE Cobra or a 514+ c.i. "stroker" 600+ horsepower Superformance Cobra, the Superformance Cobra is the no brainer.

I had a 427 S.O. in my 1969 Mach 1, while it was a awesome engine, the 429/460 engine is much better than any 427 FE engine, Genesis Block, etc...

P.S. I tried to stay out of this one, however everyone is acting like ERA and Superformance set out to build the same "style" of a Cobra replica. The answer is they are both great at what they were designed to do...

[Turk]

Bandit 1
They ARE two different cars in more ways than can be listed in here.

TURK

[Frank]

This is indeed another great thead to follow, great information!
helps me out in my search for my cobra, now myself being fareley
new to the cobra hard core scene (learning) i am narrowing my choice so far down to the spf, i love the era the only true era i have seen was jeff"s at autorama 2002 and the only real problem i could see with the car was>> that it was not sitting in "my" garage (lol) beautifull car jeff!

Now the spf i really liked the workmanship,(i hope they spf has another display at the autorama this year) and being in Canada, there is a spf dealer here now, i have been looking into what it takes to import a used spf into canada what a hassle! but i have a restoration dealer nearby that says he could possibly get the job done (paperwork) hey just trying to save a buck or two,

Here is a question or two regarding the body on the spf what are the true differances? i have heard a longer nose? the butt was a little higher? and the car sits higher?= now are we talking about a chassis ride height/ coil over adjustment or? maybe some of the hard core or spf guys have some hands on info?

Frank

[frankym]

This is a truly great forum with very thoughtful contributors. This thread exemplifies the constructive critcism that the forum is intended to provide. I don't think any post here could offend anyone because they're all pretty objective, and where opinion is stated, it's described as such. I think that everybody here agrees that SPF and ERA are top tier cobra replicas. The main reason I chose SPF is the fact that it's probably the easiest cobra replica to sell, because the construction is so uniform and consistant. That being said, it's price, albeit slightly lower than an ERA, is rock stable and it's easy to assess price based on comparable features and drive trains. Whatever cobra you drive, you're always welcomed by other owner groups, everybody likes admiring other cars and have others admire their own.

[decooney]

Hi Bandit 1,

just as an FYI... and this is off topic a bit, but i'm not sure what drag racers you are speaking with for reference on the FEs and 460/514s?.

I know of at least one FE engine builder here in CA that builds more horsepower out of his "breathing" FEs than he gets out of the 460s/514s on a dyno. He (Tom Lucas) builds both, and dynos both regularly. I am not questioning parts availaiblity or cost, but just stating some information to pass along for thought about drag racing with FEs today.

Tom has commented to me that his FEs are lighter, breath well, and produce more horsepower on the dyno. And, he says when it comes to drag cars, he'll take the FE every time. He's told me more than once that most people are still applying 70s technology and builds to the FEs even today. We put Tom to the challenge to see... so Tom came up with an experiment drag car just to see what it will do this year. He built an entire car from scratch in just 4 months.

Tom's very first trip to the drag strip last weekend in Sacramento was a 10.79 ET at 127.3 MPH with a full-dress (full interior) street/strip 1967 Mustang. Weighs in at 3,100lbs. A simple Mustang with an FE. It was his very first try out. It pulls the front wheels off of the ground if he wants. He was launching it slow last weekend. He is shooting for the high 9s now just because the 10.79 was pretty easy. If he can launch it well and get traction, it will be cool to see. This recent Mustang buildup runs what he calls his 70% FE 427 Side Oiler drag motor running 700HP. No Nitrous, all-motor, running 11.8:1 compression. His 9.9:1 compression mild street FEs develop 519HP. The #2 street drag Mustang (may be in development next year) will be running a 15:1 compression Side Oiler 427 with an approximated 940HP.

According to Tom, FEs with current technology are Back, and he wants to share with us what an old FE (with updated technology) can do in simple street drag racing once again! Its pretty cool for us die hard FE guys out there to see. Just thought I'd share this...

Give him a call if you want to verify this. Tom is a good guy. Also, he takes brand new 460s/514s right from Ford and blueprints them as well if you are interested.

Contact: Tom Lucas, FE Specialties at (916) 339-0427

[BANDIT 1]

I think that a very good point that was brought up was that the reason most ERA 427 S.O. Cobra's cost more than most Superformance Cobra's (with small blocks or Big Blocks) is the added expense of the very costly FE engine.

Now about the FE V.S 429/460 engine family...


While everyone (and every builder...) may have their opinion it is pretty much fact that FE engines are not even close to the engine a 429/460 engine is. Here are the reasons... While the new Shelby block and new head technology for the FE engines have gotten better, the 429/460 engine has been the Ford racing engine of choice for over 30 years (Nascar, Pro Stock, Monster Trucks, Drag Boats, etc...). 99% of the big Block Ford engines being raced today are 429/460 engines. Here is a example of how far behind the FE technology is, when I was in high school (1987), I was going to purchase a Ricky Smith 460 stroker engine package that was detuned to make 950 Horsepower (these were the IHRA drag motors of the time), in the dual 4BBL. version they were putting out over 1,500 horsepower with no nitrous/supercharger or anything else.

I kid you not when I say that I am a BIG 427 FE engine lover! As I said before, I had a 650 Horsepower 427 FE powered 1969 Mach 1 "pro street" Mustang and it ran like a "bat out of hell", the engine with over 30 Nitrous (extra 350 Horsepower) runs down the track, idled and ran like it was new.

[REAL 1]

I think its important to point out that the "deathtrap" tag Bandit 1 puts on the original Cobra has nothing to do with chasis design of the 427. The 427 Chasis design was a good design and the first 4 corner coil over chasis made in production! The dangerousness of the Cobra, as I understand (I don't profess to be a racer but read enough to know something) comes from its short wheel base.

I am confident that a properly set up CSX will handle with and possibly out handle a similarly set up SPF or any other.

Cobras and thier replicas are still relatively dangerous cars by virtue of their tremendous Hp matched with a relatively short wheel base.

Whether 427 or 289 you always had to know what you were doing to drive aggressively or race the car. Those that didn't respect the cars or know what they were doing many times had their lives cut short by the snake.

[Hal Copple]

someone asked about ride height on the SPF's chassis: The SPF's have a simple 8.8 Ford IRS, aluminum diff housing, Traction-Loc diff, with custom axles. Simple, light, and very robust. Come with custom valved Bilstein dampers (shocks to the American chaps), and H & R springs. Earlier cars had AVO's, by the way. Threaded "coil over's" on all four corners.

There are suspension modifications available, i have for instance the Olthoff larger rear anti roll bar, makes it easy to control oversteer. I also have their full race lightweight custom Bilstein's with HyperCoil springs, on any SPF you can dial the suspension up or down in a few minutes. I like the security of a slightly higher ride height, in that want my car up slightly for rail road tracks, speed bumps, and sloped entrances, that sort of thing.

So on an SPF, you can set the ride height pretty much where you want it, all it takes is an Allen wrench and some greasy hands.

I would never say that one of these replicas is better than the other . I would be pleased to own either one. I just happen to have an SPF as my daily driver. I have found that it is an exceedingly simple car to modify and maintain. I have seen many other handsome replicas by other manufaturers too.

I am pleased to say that Car Craft magazine has a nice photo and and a few comments about my car in this month's issue. The editor was smart enough to say only that it is a replica, without being specific as to which one.

[Hal Copple]

As for the performance of the 427 FE motor, it does seem interesting and even perplexing to me that just about all the contemporary quarter mile times of the originals, and the later re-tests that are published, put the quarter mile at about 13 seconds or so, with trap speeds of say 110. Perhaps those were hand timed speeds, on non-prepared drag strips.

I was asking this of a friend of mine, who is very knowledgable about Shelby history, why the original cars seemed so relatively slow, compared to what I and others can easily run nowadays.

I mentioned the 12.2 quarter mile of a 428 car from the mid '60's as part of the discussion. My friend told me that that one was no 428, but a custom, specially built 427 engine.

I don't doubt it, as there was so much covert engine tweaking back then, that reading about those Muscle Car tests makes great reading. For instance, the famous GTO 389 car, was actually a race prepped 421 car!

I am well aware of the GT MKII 40 prowess, and have a healthy respect for the great engines of the '60's. I have no doubt that with modern technology, an FE can be made into a formidable powerplant. Even the current drag magazines comment on how much easier it is today to make predigous engine power, compared to the '60's engines.

And Evan, Mac DeMere, senior test driver for Michelien here in SC, who drives instrumented cars all day at their Laurens test track, has instructed me and my son in my car at Charlotte, running Hoosier slicks. He told me that my car, thus equipped, is easily a 1.25-1.3 G car. Having ridden with him, with the car so loose yet in his total control at 100+ mph in the turns in the infield course, with the Armco a few feet away, I can say with confidence that the handling capabilities of my SPF and your CSX car are so far above our abilities, we could be in pedal cars compared to what professonal driversr can do in yours or mine.

Roland Linder, two time LeMans winner for Porsche, his Ferrari F-40 featured in the Dec FORZA, has driven my car on a race track, and told Chris and I that it was a superb car, with wonderful transitions. What ever that means. I think he meant it cornered pretty well. I am sure he would have said the same of your car.

[REAL 1]

Hal: I'm probably dangerous even in a peddle car.

[BANDIT 1]

Mr. Real 1:

You can ask any Shelby race car driver and they will tell you,
the 427 Cobra was their least favorite race car. I did not make this up, it is in EVERY article I have ever read about Cobra race car drivers. They all say the same thing, they wanted a 351 engined Cobra and Ford wanted the 427 engine. When I say it was about the chassis of the time, I am also talking about the short wheelbase. It only makes sense that technology gets better 30+ years later.

[Jerry Chabino]

Both great cars but I'll keep my Unique

[Ray R]

The deposit has been sent. Again, thanks to you all for your help in this process.



And the check goes to........



.....drum roll....




.....SPF.

[Chaplin]

Well, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Nah, just kidding. You will be very happy with your SPF. You really couldn't go wrong either way. Good luck and keep us posted.

[REAL 1]

Bandit 1: Funny. I have done alot of reading and don't recall reading anything about former 427 racers saying the 427 Cobra was their "least" favorite car to race. Can you cite me to references? You say this was said in every article you read? What former 427 racers told you it was their least favorite car to race or said it in print so I know who to ask?

Where any of the drivers you refer to the ones who drove the 427 Cobra to any of its SCCA A production titles?

I have, however, read articles where drivers indicated a preference for the 289. So?

Motor Trend just established the 427 Cobra as quicker through their slalom course than the 289. This and the 427's SCCA record I think clearly establishes the 427 as a competent racer in the right hands.

So if we are talking about short wheel base when we say "chasis" doesn't the SPF have a 90" wheelbase too? And if both the SPF and the CSX have the same wheel base what technological advantage does the SPF have in the handling department? Just curious.

[Doug Axelrod]

I have read that some that have race-driven the original Cobra and the SPF find the replica to have better handling, at least in the curves, attributed to a stiffer chassis. I'd be interested in whether anyone has direct knowledge, e.g. Bondurant or Oltoff.