Insurance information straight from the source!

[klayfish]

Please see my new post/poll. We're moving forward and need your help. I hope you aren't sick of seeing posts from me and/or hearing about this. But we've got to take action. And to do so, we really need your help. Please vote and participate. You are going to shape the future of this organization, we need YOU!!

We can continue this thread if everyone likes, but please input on the new one.

Steve

[Back in Black]

The entire concept of mandatory classes and a "governing body" certifying cobras, (My West Coast cobra would be the most likely to pass, by the way, along with JBLs, etc...) is a self defeating one and reminds me of how much gun owners have folded over the years on the 2nd Amendment. The best part of this thread is the hockey discussion

[klayfish]

Back in Black,
What are you so worried about? We're not a governing body, we don't work for the government, we don't report to anyone but ourselves. We're not pushing for mandatory legislation or strict laws for everyone. This program is voluntary and nobody has say over it except you and me. We're doing this for ourselves. Who are you worried is going to get you? I don't think the NSRA or NCRS has had people make them put airbags in their 'Vettes or '32 Fords.

Don't be worried, nobody will jump out and get you.

Steve

[BLACKJACK]

IT'S A MISTAKE TRYING TO PLAY "HIDE THE WEENIE" WITH INSURANCE PROFESSIONALS. THEY'RE SMART ENOUGH TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.

THEY THINK OUR CARS ARE "UNSAFE". WE WANT TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE "SAFE". THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THE WORD "SAFE".

HOW about: "CUSTOM VEHICLE SAFETY ASSOCIATION". THE NAME WILL TELL JUST WHAT WE ARE AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. WE COULD CALL THE INSPECTION PROTOCOL THE "CUSTOM VEHICLE CERTIFICATION PROGRAM".

OUR IMMEDIATE CONCERN IS COBRAS - - AND IT SHOULD BE. OTHER VEHICLES DO NOT SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH INSURANCE. LET'S NOT CONFUSE THE ISSUE BY TRYING TO INCORPORATE OTHER CUSTOM BUILT VEHICLES, STREET RODS, ETC. AT LEAST NOT UNTIL WE HAVE OUR OWN PROBLEMS RESOLVED.

CUTE, DECEPTIVE WORDING IS TRANSPARENT TO THESE FOLKS. LET'S PUT OUR CARDS (AND ONLY OUR CARDS) ON THE TABLE AND DEAL WITH THESE GUYS STRAIGHT UP. ANYTHING ELSE WILL CONFUSE THE ISSUE. REMEMBER, RIGHT NOW WE NEED THEM MORE THAN THEY NEED US. WE NEED TO DO A DAMN GOOD JOB OF PACKAGING AND MARKETING BOTH.

AND BY THE WAY - - THIS IS A DAMN IMPORTANT THREAD AND IT'S BEING HI-JACKED BY A BUNCH OF PERSONAL BULL ****. HOW ABOUT TAKE THE ADOLESCENT CRAP TO ANOTHER THREAD UNTIL THE GUYS WHO CARE ABOUT THIS ISSUE CAN GET IT SOLVED.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK

[Back in Black]

You are doing it TO yourselves... Blackjack is also correct.. about one thing...you cannnot "Play" with the insurance companies...and to anyone with a lick of sense, there is scant difference between a cobra and any other street rod

[klayfish]

Back in Black,
I don't follow you. How are we doing it to ourselves? Seriously, I don't understand.

Maybe they don't have a lick of sense, maybe they do. But we are seen very differently than the street rods.

Steve

[DAVID GAGNARD]

klayfish & others;


As some of you know,I"m in the auto claims industry myself. My primary job is inspecting damaged autos and writing repair estimates. I also do some fraud investigations and some investigations when we have fatalities. Also, I have to determine if an auto is "safe" to drive after an accident before it is repaired,so I do a safety inspection on it after the collision.....

I whole heartly agree with the ideas brought forth by klayfish and others of having some sort of inspection process for these cars. I am also familiar with the NSRA rules and inspection as we have a number of 1930's street rods around here and most if not all have the NSRA safety inspection decal on the windshield.....

Just a thought,will the NSRA inspect Cobras or kit cars???? If they would that would also be a big plus to show the insurance industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I talked to one guy here that builds and owns street rods and goes thru the NSRA and has told me he has had nothing but good luck with his insurance company when having to make a claim (twice in 10 years) on his street rods..Both times someone backed into his car while it was parked and unoccupied and the culprit left the scene without leaving a note or anything to identify himself..

Again,just a thought,but if NSRA would inspect these cars that would only be a plus for the owners.....

David

[Turk]

That makes more sense to me to take advantage of the inspection process of an already existing and accepted body to give their seal of approval to our cars as being "safe" and having met the minimum of build integrity.
To start up another body/association to do such inspection maybe like re-inventing the wheel. Expecting the Insurance companies to give IT the same level of credibilty as they currently do to NSRA maybe a bit ambitious.

After all, our cars ARE Hot Rods, whether we like that characterization or not. Why NOT take advantage of that process that is already in place?

TURK

DV and others have asked for input and discussion earlier. It is in that spirit I submit my concerns.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Turk;

I think the proposal of klayfish and others is very good....My thoughts are why not have the cars inspected by more than one organization,especially one this is recognized by the insurance industry already..........My thoughts are it would only be a plus for mutiple inspections.....

David

[klayfish]

David and Turk,
Thanks for your input, and I will wait to hear DVs thoughts. I don't know a whole lot about the NSRA, but I think some of the reasons we're doing this seperately is:

Cobras are different than street rods. Their list of 23 probably wouldn't work for Cobras

Would they even welcome us? Cobras right now have a bad reputation in the insurance industry. The idea here is to change that. I don't know right now they would want us involved.

Not riding the coattails of the NSRA. We're not necessarily trying to re-invent the wheel, and I suppose we could use the NSRA as a model for our group, but we're trying to establish our own identity and our own voice.

No, our group won't have a recognized name at the start, but neither did the NSRA. We have to start somewhere.


David, who do you work for? Are you a "re-inspector/appraiser"?

I want DVs input on this too, but I see nothing wrong with our inspectors being the same people who can also do NSRA inspections (after all, they're probably damn good builders), but we should establish a seperate identity.

Steve

[CSX 4039]

My take, for what it's worth, dealing daily with insurance for years. If you're gonna get f&*^ked, you're gonna get f%^&ked. Nothing a little tiny organization like this can do about it. The only choice is not to play the game. In medicine we have a $30k/ year employee, whose job is little more than trying to collect legitimate fees billed to insurance. With that, we still lose 10's of thousands a year to those dragons. We call it the cost of doing business. You can't even write it off as a tax loss. It's just time/ employee salaries/ supplies out the window.

[Turk]

I guess my thinking is more along the lines of....

If I had a unique gun I wanted some exemptions to apply, I would do better riding the coattails of NRA and take advantage of their clout and credibility rather than find a few more people who have a similar gun and see if we could form our own organization.

I am not a builder, and have no problem getting insurance currently (but may in the future). I am basically thinking out loud if we would do better on our own or we would do better within a pre-existing, and established organization.
I am NOT against it...just thinking out loud what would get us more bang for the buck.

TURK

[Back in Black]

Only leads to further rape at a later date. By creating this "group" the persons involved are Kow Towing to the insurance companies. They will then requre MORE and MORE "safety" stuff until cobras are required to meet all "modern" "Safety" features.. where would it end ??

That's my take, based on recorded history.

[klayfish]

Brett,
I'm sorry, I have to strongly disagree with you. Do you really think we're getting f'd by the insurance company? How? Why? They aren't f'ing us, they are afraid. We're trying to help them.

Back in Black,
I seriously hope you aren't saying that you think I'm doing this to go back and get the insurance companies to "rape" anyone. Regardless, I don't see how that could happen. This will be our group, 100% exclusive of any insuranc company. They will have nothing to do with the rules. Have your fears happened to the NSRA, or any other type of classic vehicles? Have you ever seen a '55 Chevy with airbags? No. I don't see how that could ever happen. If our rules set forth are simple and easy, and not objectionable, why don't you join in. If it gets too much for you, just drop your membership. Nobody is forcing you.

I realize there are some people who just think it's hopeless or are worried they will get "screwed". Hey, I can't convince everyone, and I won't try to. I have full respect for them, and I thank them for voicing their concerns respectfully. If you don't want to join, you certainly don't have to. I just hope you'll watch and listen as we move forward and maybe change your minds.

Steve

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Steve/klay;

I am an independent appraiser here in Louisiana. I contract my services out to insurance companys who need or do not have "in-house or staff appraisers". Currently I am only working for one company,a top five company in Louisiana and it is also a nationwide company....They do have staff appraisers,but also hire independents like myself to compliment their staff guys... My area is 6 parishes (counties) and I have in the last five years dropped a number of small mom and pop companys since my claims count has steadily grown with this company..... I look at an average of 110 to 125 vehicles a month barring hail storms or hurricanes....then the claims count really goes up...I guess I'm doing a good job,because they have kept me with them for 10 years now and out of the 14 or so independents they use,I'm usually in the top three in claims.

Not only I do appraisals,but I also do reinspections and as stated some investigations,and I also inspect shops for proper equipment and see that their employess are properly trained for their jobs,mostly ASE and I-CAR around here for which I am certified in both. I also meet with and report to the underwriting staff when we have mutiple or similar claims with one person or family (staged accidents) and report persons that I beleive may be a bad risk or hazard because of driving record or the circumstances surrounding the accident...
I worked in a large body shop for 14 years prior to my starting my own business and the last four years I was shop manager....

To all concerned,the insurance companys are not trying to rip anyone off,they are like any other business,if they do not make a profit, the go out of business,some cars are more profitable to insure than others,as some types are more invovled in accidents and stolen than others....The office that is in the parish (county) where I live LOSES one to a million and half dollars a year on the auto side of their business,the homeowners side makes enough profit to offset this and show a total profit for the year,that's the only way they can stay in business.....This is one parish out of 64 in the state..I can not say all the other parishes do the same,but you get the idea....

I am not trying to be an add or poster boy for the insurance companys,I do not sell insurance , I work in claims,but I do know how the insurance industry works....Personally,if I ran the company I work for,I would NEVER insure a Cobra,kit or original,the exposure is just too great for the premium....If you think your premiums are high,start your own company and then talk to me about high premiums.....When you get hit with a multimillion dollar lawsuit invovling mutiple fatalitys,then tell me how long will it take to recoup your loses for a 500 dollar a year premium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The company I work for does it all the time....

I probably work claims involving fatalitys at least once a month,last month had FIVE fatalitys in one accident,all in their late thirties to early fortys with wives and 3 to 5 kids each,what do you think the payout will be for that one accident.....

Klay,in talking to my buddy with the street rods this week,he told me they get their cars inspected at car shows or cruise-ins,as the inspectors are their and that saves them trips to find these guys.....They set-up an inspection area and do this for the day or weekend depending on the number off cars needing an inspection....Did not ask the fee,but will find out and look into the NSRA thing.....

I think starting our own group to inspect the cars is great and I will help out in anyway I can,just thought that adding an NSRA inspection (if they will do it) to our cars could not hurt.....

David

[Tom Wells]

What David said!

(besides, how could I disagree? My wife is from Jena!)

Tom

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by klayfish


Brett,
I'm sorry, I have to strongly disagree with you. Do you really think we're getting f'd by the insurance company? How? Why? They aren't f'ing us, they are afraid. We're trying to help them.


I realize there are some people who just think it's hopeless or are worried they will get "screwed". Hey, I can't convince everyone, and I won't try to. I have full respect for them, and I thank them for voicing their concerns respectfully. If you don't want to join, you certainly don't have to. I just hope you'll watch and listen as we move forward and maybe change your minds.

And, I agree with the above quote about never insuring any Cobras, replica or original. Trying to convince them that they are "safe" if they pass inspections is like assuming a real cobra (snake) won't bite if he is happy.

I see the carnage motorcycles (murdercycles) cause. Why they can get insurance is BEYOND ME. A cobra is a four wheeled motorcycle, original, replica or otherwise.

Steve

Okay, I agree. At least with regard to Cobra's. I guess I let a little health insurance, Worker's Comp. insurance type experience creep in. Insuarance co.'s are NO angels. though. (Reference REAL 1's prior diatribes on the subject). However, I am quite skeptical about efforts to change their opinion. They are universally blasted by huge organizations such as the AMA, AARP, the press and public opinion, but, seem immune to the criticism, lobbying, cajolling, or whatever. That's what happens when you have a strangle hold on something. (You can't get hospital priveledges if you don't have insurance/ you can't drive on the roads if you don't have car insurance). Control makes them arrogant.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Tom;

Thanks for the vote of confidence,not to get off topic but,I work Lasalle Parish and the Jena area,twice a week for the last 10 years,who's her family,I may know them,small world we live in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[KobraKarl]

David makes a great point ; considering our group risk as a whole .it would probably make the most sense to dilute ourselves as much as possible with an existing group with an at least "percieved" lower liability status.

Turk's suggestion of an existing /recognized (and insureable)group to use / join should work at least when considering the relative power /weight ratios, custom features etc. We have almost every thing in common.
Karl

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Brett;

Some people feel ripped off by insurance companys,I personally do not,it may be a neccassary evil if you will...Auto insurance is quite a bit different than hospitalization/health and workmans comp insurance. Health insurance has many different types to buy as well as exclusions,that auto insurance does not have......

Let me give this scenario; I'll pay you $335.00 dollars every six months and in return you will promise to pay loses on my 16 year old daughter's 1993 Toyota Celica for fire-wind storm-theft-vadalism and/or collision to the value of her car (approx. $5,500.00 right now) and if she is invovled in an accident,you will pay for the other partys vehicle damage up to 50k and if they are injured you will pay their medical bills-loss wages and pain and suffering for up to 150k, for a measely $670.0 per year.... I do not think you would like to take that deal,I know I would not,but yet my insurance company does...........If she only totals her car with no injuries and no other damage to any other vehicle or property (utility poles-culverts-fire hydrants-water/gas meters),than your are only out $5,500.00,She has been driving for eleven and a half months now,so I've paid a total of $670.00 in premium to you,lets see now your in the hole for $4,830.00....Good deal uh....I don't think soooooo..That's for a $5,500.00 ten year old car,not a new Town Car or Suburban or even a Z-71...

Cobras kinda fall in that catagory....You have most that are "homebuilt" if you will,granted most are built rather well,but how do you know if it was not one of the better built ones and not someone with little knowledge who pieced one together with little regard for safety in mind???? You have small cars,short wheelbase,usually way over powered,driven by largley inexpirienced drivers worth upwards of 30k to 50k or more....Not a good risk,too many unkowns.....Luckily you do not here of that many accidents,but look at the ones we have heard of on this forum lately,most if not all involved fatalitiys.....Dead people=big settlements=big payouts=bad risk to insure...this is just a fact of life,wish it wasn't true but I can not change that.....that's why companys are running from the Cobras,too many unkowns and too much exposure for the premium.....

David