Enough Dead Cobra Owners! Enough Wrecked Cars!

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by Russ Dickey


This from somebody who's personal quote is "Life is Short. Roads are Long. Drive Faster." ???

The facts remain that while tragic, these are ACCIDENTS. . By way of comparison, more people are killed each year while changing a tire on the side of the road.

Russ,

Changing a tire on the side of the road is usually unavoidable.
Road racing deaths do not qualify as accidents....

I'm not really sure I get the connection between the poor guy getting clipped and killed while changing a tire and the road racer who hit him.... Are they both accidents????

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by Russ Dickey


Brett:
Either way, everyone lives life by a different sword.

I wonder how many drivers/passengers/innocents are killed each year when people have a heart-attack behind the wheel...I would bet it's more than the 20 who die due to street racing.

Russ,

Everybody dies by a different sword also.... some self inflicted...

[Chaplin]

The loss of life is truly a tragedy and I feel for his family and those that he left behind. However, the most tragic thing about it is that it was absolutely preventable.

[casaleenie]

Chaplin's tag line says it all.......

[Russ Dickey]

Folks:
There is a risk factor associated with everything we do in life. Whether it's driving a fast car, trying to pass a stone on the crapper, or even changing a flat tire on the side of the road. Granted, the risk factors vary greatly.

You have to know that when you get out of your car on the highway to change a tire, you might get hit by someone. The flat tire may be unavoidable, but choosing to change it yourself isn't. A truly cautious person would call AAA or some Highway Assitance person to come change it for them, but if you choose to change it yourself, in the back of your head, you know you run the risk of getting killed in an accident. You don't intend for that to happen, but it might.

How is this not the same as a street race? Mark never intended to lose control of his vehicle, but in the back of his mind, he knew the risk was there. Unfortunately, his number was simply up.

I guess it's my humble opinion that these threads (and recently the media) are blowing street racing way out of proportion. The casualty statistics simply don't support the hype. Street racing is the true root of our hobby, and I'm sure almost everyone on this forum has done it. Recently, I've been around a bevy of Cobra and muscle-car owners who were all standing around bench racing and sharing their stories of "gettin' a little crazy" on the streets of KC.

Again, the risk factor is higher, but no street racer intends to hurt their cars, themselves, or others. But accidents happen.

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by Russ Dickey


Folks:
There is a risk factor associated with everything we do in life. Whether it's driving a fast car, trying to pass a stone on the crapper, or even changing a flat tire on the side of the road. Granted, the risk factors vary greatly.

You have to know that when you get out of your car on the highway to change a tire, you might get hit by someone. The flat tire may be unavoidable, but choosing to change it yourself isn't. A truly cautious person would call AAA or some Highway Assitance person to come change it for them, but if you choose to change it yourself, in the back of your head, you know you run the risk of getting killed in an accident. You don't intend for that to happen, but it might.

How is this not the same as a street race? Mark never intended to lose control of his vehicle, but in the back of his mind, he knew the risk was there. Unfortunately, his number was simply up.

I guess it's my humble opinion that these threads (and recently the media) are blowing street racing way out of proportion. The casualty statistics simply don't support the hype. Street racing is the true root of our hobby, and I'm sure almost everyone on this forum has done it. Recently, I've been around a bevy of Cobra and muscle-car owners who were all standing around bench racing and sharing their stories of "gettin' a little crazy" on the streets of KC.

Again, the risk factor is higher, but no street racer intends to hurt their cars, themselves, or others. But accidents happen.

That may be the most convoluted logic I've ever heard....
Are you listening to yourself????
and no, I haven't street raced since I was 16 years old.... Street racing is a thing of the past..... no one can afford it anymore...

If the AAA guy gets hit by the street racer is it an accident???

[Edley Rondinone]

My Turn: I believe that most people think "It will never happen to me", or "It only happens to the other guy." Do something dumb enough times, and "It will happen to you." And when it does, YOU are "the other guy!" to other people. It IS tragic when anyone loses their life in a traffic accident. All I would like to say is for people to be as safe as possible, and to be around for as long as possible, if only to spend your children's inheritance!

[Jim Maxwell]

Russ, To me, there is a huge difference between the guys killing themselves with beer, burgers, and a couch potato lifestyle, and the guy who makes stupid decisions while driving a car. The first scenario hurts one guy, and perhaps family and friends, and all of our insurance rates, but he doesn't kill or maim anyone else.
The second guy has the high potential to kill or seriously injure other innocent folks, and often does, as in this instance, his own passenger. Lucky someone wasn't standing on the sidewalk!
The recent Cobra double fatality here in Greensboro seriously injured several innocent teenagers who were hit head-on by a speeding Cobra. They didn't get a choice or a chance.
I hope I never have the unfortunate bad luck to have my stupid mistakes, of which there have been many, cost anyone else so dearly.

[Excaliber]

Flat tire or not, I would continue to drive the car to a place where it was SAFE to change the tire. I hope the AAA guy has enough common sense to assess the situation and determine the safety issue's before procedding.

At some point NOT using common sense crosses the line between "accident" and "foolish".

When your racing "wheel to wheel" (as I DO on the "track") you really put your life in the hands of your fellow competitors. You have to know and trust them. If someone has a "grudge" WE won't let him on the track. Thats the biggest problem with street racing, there is just no telling WHAT the "other guy" might do. The "rules" aren't applied on the street like they are on the "track", increasing the "risk" factor enormously.

Ernie

[Russ Dickey]

While I realize that my posts on this thread have assured that once I do obtain my Cobra, that I will never be invited to a fling, car show, cruise night, etc, I feel that I have to make one final post.

My grandpa used to say: "Be careful when you climb up on your high horse, because it might just be a Shetland Pony". Let's be realistic, we're all Type A personalities around here, or else we wouldn't all share the same desire to own the meanest car ever unleashed on the American public.

But don't use the sad circumstances surrounding this accident to belt out a bunch of hipocritical rhetoric. Some of you guys are telling me that you own a 2500lb, 450+hp sports car, and you've NEVER romped on it in public? Wow.

Maybe you fall into one of these categories:
1. Used cell phone while driving
2. Eaten food while driving.
3. Flirted with spouse while driving.
4. Are a teenage girl.

Yes? Well then, you are among the most dangerous and careless drivers on the road, and based on current casualty statistics, are at least 25x more likely to be killed (and kill others) while behind the wheel than a guy who occasionally partakes in a stop-light challenge.

Don't do any of the above and still never mash the throttle? Damn, then you have a greater sense of self-control than 99.9% of the civilized population of Earth, and should immediately send off a bottle of your plasma for research. The rest of us animals could use a dose.

[casaleenie]

[quote]Originally posted by Russ Dickey


[b]While I realize that my posts on this thread have assured that once I do obtain my Cobra, that I will never be invited to a fling, car show, cruise night, etc, I feel that I have to make one final post.


Russ,

Of course you'll be invited.. In fact please consider the DVSF in June in Columbus Ohio... Great place to get to know different cars..
and please don't make it you last posting... It's been a delicate subject but interesting....

I don't have a cell phone...because I choose not too.
I do eat food when I drive but not in the Cobra..
I've been married for 36 years and if I started to play graba$$ in the car she'd probably smack me.. (you're right it would be dangerous)
I'm not a teenage girl..

and I believe that 84% of the statistics you quoted were made up
(I made up that figure)

and yes, I do have a great amount of self control..
and in closing.... No, I have never romped on the car for the public..but I've got on it in public. and always for my own satisfaction.

[PatBuckley]

BS

[klayfish]

I think there has been some great discussion here. This is obviously a delicate and sensitive subject, give the circumstance.

From reading all the posts on all the threads, it brings several thoughts to mind.

Of course Mark did not intend to crash or kill himself, no street racer ever does. Nor would I ever want to criticize him personally, this was a horrible tragedy. But one that did not need to happen. As others have pointed out, it is bad enough that he lost his life, but it is extremely lucky that nobody else did. It's not just the drivers, but their families, the innocent others who may get killed by a needless accident, and THEIR families. What if someone you loved was killed by a street racer, whether they were in a fart-canned Honda or a Cobra??

This is not directed at anyone, but it feels to me like so many people just want to stick their heads in the sand, and deny there is a problem, blame it on something else, or minimize it. Is it an epidemic that will end civilazation? No. But it is a problem, and it is real. Nobody will ever be able to stop all accidents, we shouldn't expect to.

An analogy was made earlier that preaching this was similar to a priest asking the congregation for more money. Those who already give will give more, and those who don't still won't. Hence those here who already think safety, and those who don't still won't. That may be true for some, but I can't say I agree for all. I really believe that if we, as an organized group, continue to encourage responsible street driving, and promote such things as autox and open track racing, it WILL help. I can say that without a doubt, since I started autox'ing and open tracking, I have definitely changed the way I drive on the street, and I am more aware of things on the street. I did not drive like a madman before autox, but since then, I don't even feel the need to horse around on the street.

I hope that even if the organization I dream of never comes to pass, at least some positive discussions will result. Nobody here wants to have to send condolences to another grieving family. It just shouldn't happen.

Steve

[casaleenie]

Pat,


BS?

[stale_face]

It is not just cobras. There are many other specialty cars which draw bad press also. And it is not just the "stupid" people that are causing the problems. We all search for that edge and think we haven't found it yet.

Case in point, look over on Autoweek website for a story titled "The Strange Life and Stranger Death of Paul Brown".

This guy was a nuclear scientist. He loved to race, on the track or on the street. Had a mazda RX2 with 1400 hp, and you think the cobra's are slightly crazy?

Met his demise on an Idaho frontage road in a late night race.

And can we at least get this poor boy in Iowa buried before we start spitting on his grave?

[Dan Semko]

I think you missed the point to that AutoWeek story, it wasn't about Paul Brown's racing expertise that was in question but rather what he discovered and who was trying to silence his research before publication.

[stale_face]

Very true, very true, the story was just plain weird. Maybe somebody WAS out to get him. Or maybe 1400 hp was just wee to much for an RX2.

[PatBuckley]

Casaleenie,

Yep.

" No, I have never romped on the car for the public..but I've got on it in public. and always for my own satisfaction."

I am reading all this holier than thou stuff from a lot of people about how they never speed , never street race, drive their Cobras slower than their street cars, etc. in the same breath they are pissing on this poor guy who just got killed. Give me a break! Remember - it could just as easily have been any one of us who got killed - who among us has not taken our cars over a hundred - just once? Be honest. What if a tire blew out, or something, at that time....?

If you have a Cobra and say you have never done any of these things - even ONCE - then you are full of it. I flat don't believe you.

By the way, what difference does it make if you get on it for your own satisfaction vs. doing it for the public? Does that make it OK? How can one tell the difference?

Pat

By the way - I never eat in any car while I am driving - too dangerous!

[Excaliber]

SO true........could been ANY one of us at some point in our life.

Ernie

[Turk]

This is getting to be nuts.
"JFK JR killed himself and others in a plane crash".
How much more rules and regulations than what a pilot and an aircraft goes through do we want subject our cars and ourselves to be safer?

I don't believe we could ever self regulate better than FAA can. Yet people do stupid things. Do we need more certification, and rules?
You can't decertify stupidty.

"The Sky is falling, The sky is falling".
Few more years no more insurance, no more Cobras! Right.
That is so much like what has been said about motorcycles for years. It ain't going to happen, not in your life time.

I am going to go on a limb and suggest that there are more accidents per thousand in Honda Civics, Mitsubishi Eclipses, and Buick La Sabers..
No one seems to be worried that they will be banning them of the streets anytime soon.

As a whole we are better drivers than most other categories of different makes.
Why? Most of us are scared to death of the car we own. Most have skills better than the driver's of above cars.

Yes people will get hurt, killed. that is the price of wreckless and stupid driving. No one is going to change that, not by modifying their sticker or affliliation to this or that club.

Klayfish, We recognize that there is at least the appearance of a "problem". What are you going to do about it? Issue some sort of a sticker that will make the bad driver a good one?

Do you think any sanctioning from the "organization" that would have come in the direction of the poor soul who died, would have changed the course of events?

Do you think he would have heeded the advice? What would you have told him, before he got killed that he did not hear in Driver Ed,or from his parents, or his passenger?

Please give us a clue and help us all out and save our lives!

Not long ago, you and DV were promoting the idea of safety inspections for poorly assembled unsafe cars. Today the reach is deeper. Now you are all talking about safety. It is a leap...All that before such an organization is even assembled. What will it be tomorrow?

Will we be asked to turn in one another upon observing some unsafe behaviour so the "organization" can remove the endorsement they once gave.

You guys scare the hell out of me. What good is a sanctioniong body if you are not going to present yourselves as representing us to the authorities or the Insurance companies under the pretense of "look we have a bunch of nice, safe and responsible drivers here with equally safe and well checked out cars".

What good is all that if you don' have the powers to revoke such status from the drivers/owners you are attempting to represent.

I have been very vocal and against this attempt from the beginning, and will remain so.

TURK

Let's not forget the fact out of 40,000 or so Cobras and drivers only one got killed. Why don't we do something about the 39.999 who didn't get killed?I think weare a pretty safe bunch if you take a head count.