Cobra choice help wanted

[landerson]

Guys,

First, I apologize for the length of this posting, but I really could use some feedback. Thanks in advance.

I’ve been considering buying/building a Cobra for a while and it looks like I may be able to swing it sometime in the near future. As a typically anal engineer, I am involved in a comparative analysis of the various kits that are within my price target, that being under $30K for the completed car. Admittedly that narrows the field somewhat. Before I start with the questions, let me give you a little background. First, I intend to use the car primarily as a street driver, although I may do some autocrossing. I live in the Charleston, SC area, which can have some surprise showers that are real frog stranglers (downpours to you Yankees), so weather protection is a must. Also, the summers here can be brutal, so an effective A/C is almost as important. Ok, now for the questions:

1. Power steering versus non-power: Can PS be fitted along with A/C? Does it make the car too twitchy? If so, can proportioning valves resolve that? How heavy is it to drive around town without PS?

2. Underbody versus side exhaust: Does anyone have any experience with underbody exhaust? If so, what are the pro’s and con’s relative to side exhaust?

3. Carburetion versus fuel injection: Pro’s and con’s please.

4. ISR versus live axle: Is the addition of IRS worth the extra $2K that I’ve been told it costs? What problems with drive shaft binding have been seen on live axle cars?

5. Platform(most kits) versus backbone or tube frames(FFR and RUCC): Have any of you experienced stress cracking due to your body being a stressed component? Have any of you been involved in an accident with a platform frame car? If so, how did it hold up? Other than a steel hoop to hold up the cowl and dash, what other safety reinforcements surround the passenger compartments in your cars? My wife used to work in an ER, so she’s very conscious of safety considerations. I must admit to some concern about the performance of a platform framed car in an accident.

6. I’m not crazy about the stretched looks that some kits have. Do they really provide that much more comfort? Do the dropped footboxes in some of the 90” wheelbase models compensate? I’m 6’, 185 and don’t like to feel cramped.

7. Just how effective are those A/C units I’ve seen for Cobras? Given what they cost, I’d hope you could hang meat in there.

8. If I went with a kit that was not available partially built from the manufacturer, but I didn’t want to do the whole job myself, are there any builders in the southeast that can be recommended?

9. Any comments regarding component vendors I should avoid or ones that are recommended?

At this point I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to Factory Five, Lone Star, Backdraft, RUCC (if they're still in business), Shell Valley (maybe too expensive), and MidStates, although I'm open to other suggestions. I really love the looks of the ERA 289FIA street version with underbody exhaust, but ERA’s kits are too expensive for me.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Again, thanks for your help.

Lane Anderson

[Cracker]

With all that you expect/want I would suggest a CORVETTE with T-tops and some little cobra badges in front & back. Power steering on a Cobra? Come on! Best of luck trying to get all that for under 30K as well.

Tony Hull

[Ron61]

Lane,

I can't begin to answer all of your questions but I have seen some Cobras with air conditoning that did a pretty good job, at least where it blew out on your legs. As for the stretched cars, mine has a 94 inch wheel base and that does make them corner and handle better. I have driven both the 90 and 94 inch ones and it is amazing at the difference. As for power steering I really don't care for it. I like to have more feel of the road and to me the power steering takes that away. But if you are just going to cruise and not drive it hard on corners it would probably be ok.As for carburation or fuel injection, I will leave that for more knowledgeable people. I like the carburation but know several with fuel injection and they work great. I like the side exhaust as you can get a freer flow I think and also you don't have the heat right under you. However good heat shielding and padding will cover that. I like the solid 4 link rear end but there will be others that like the others better. As for your price goal, I think if you want all that you may have to make some adjustments.

Good luck.

Ron

[frankym]

It's hard to help you because you're all over the place. Spend some time looking at other threads that have compared different models. The cost of a first timer build will usually exccede the cost of a pre-owned cobra purchase and by the time you finish building it and start driving it, you'll realize that the car you built is not what you thought it'd be. On that note, I think you should just look for a used car that drives reliably. I think the mfgs you're contemplating offer about the same product, in terms of value at least. AC and power steering are not necessary, IRS = better handling. Carb vs. EFI should make no difference because you're looking for economy not super tuning. Get the buyer's guide, but just look for something that fits you and make sure it's got more than a few hundred miles. go to ffcobra.com, I have seen plenty of nice looking FFR cobras with 10-15k miles that run great, look great and can be had for @25k. Until you know that you want the cobra for life, don't get too crazy about making up your wish lists today, you'll know a lot better what you want after you own and drive one for a while, so get something at a reasonable price, adjust some items that make the car better without spending lots of money, and then when you determine that you really want a small block with 400+ hp you start over again. Don't buy something for $20k, only to put $15k into it, and then sell it for 20k a year later because the car still isn't what you want. If you know someone that's built one of these cars and is willing to help you, then there's a reason to build one, but you'll spend a good deal more money building one than you initially estimate. PS, if you find 2 cobras for sale that are identical except for the mileage, one has 1,500 and one has 15,000, pay a premium for the car with 15k miles, cobras are built to be driven, not to be fixed, torn down and rebuilt. Bring somebody along that knows these cars better than you, and I don't mean a mechanic, someone that's built a cobra or currently owns and tunes a cobra, it'll make a big difference. The cobra guy will be able to quickly pick up on where the builder made some mistakes. If you find a car you like, try to request help from someone on this site that lives near you to accompany you. good luck.

[SSS]

Welcome to the madness, Lane!

Before I start, many will suggest that you first look for a used one. I don't know how many would be available with the options you want, but you could very well save money that way.

Under $30k is a pretty broad range actually, if you're willing to build the car yourself. If you want to find one with all the options you want, already built, your choices may be non-existent. You definitely won't find a newly built car with a new engine under $30k. Such an option does not exist. Pretty much the only way to get a built Cobra replica under $30k is with a used drivetrain or used altogether.

1) I couldn't possibly bring myself to putting A/C in a Cobra. Nor a stereo for that matter. I would imagine PS and A/C can be fairly easily added for any car that employs the single-donor concept, and the electronics, smog, PS, and A/C systems out of the donor car could be used. How well it works is not a question I can answer.

2) I think any Cobra could be made with undercar exhaust. It's quieter and you won't burn your leg, but everything else is a negative in my book. Come to think of it, why would you want a quiet Cobra?

3) For a street car, I would think EFI is a no-brainer. If originality is more important to you than dependability, go with carb.

4) I'm not qualified to answer, but I would think IRS would make for a nicer ride quality but maybe not $2k nicer. If you're not putting a ton of horsepower in it, you shouldn't have a problem either way mechanically.

5) As far as I can tell, the main difference between the FFR frame and that of most other makers is the 'birdcage' of perimeter rails for attaching the panels and body. The RUCC has heavy-gauge beams in the doors. What else makes them different from the rest? What does 'tube' have to do with it? They're all made out of tubes! What is the 'backbone' of an FFR frame? As far as safety goes, is it better to have 'crumple' beams that are not so large, to absorb energy? What about the structure around the gas tank? I think it's a good idea to have solid beams surrounding the cockpit to prevent side-intrusion, but this is extra weight. Still, all-in-all, if safety is your first concern you should not buy a Cobra! Safe is relative term...

6) Most (if not all) makers offer dropped footboxes which adds more room. My maker (Carcepts, Pacific Roadsters) has a recessed rear firewall which adds cockpit room. I would think a 6' 185lbs driver would fit fine in most Cobra replicas.

8) Have you tried Hunter? They're in Florida.

I think for most of the manufacturers you list, you could only get a car for under $30k with a used drivetrain. If you build it yourself, an FFR could probably be built with the weather components and a new drivetrain.

I also fall under the $30k price limit, and I ordered a complete turnkey from Carcepts/Pacific Roadsters in Salem, Oregon. This is a complete car with soft top, wipers, paint, premium wheels, original-style interior, 5-point harnesses, Autometer gauges, coil-overs all around, and ceramic-coated exhaust, with EFI drivetrain (rebuilt T5), solid-axle rear (3.55 gear upgrade), gas tank, radiator, etc from a 108,000 mile '93 Mustang. My total cost is $26k. Power steering was optional, and I'm sure Kraig can do A/C too. For $30k you could substitute a new engine I imagine.

Good luck!

[landerson]

Sounds like I need to clarify a bit.

First, power steering and A/C are NOT absolutes for me. I was simply interested in the opinions of folks who've lived with these cars a while. Obviously some of these opinions are pretty strong. Sorry if the idea of a slightly tamed snake offended anyone. Vette with Cobra badges? Very helpful.

And yes, I realize that this is a lot to hope for in the >$30K range. I've done some more research on this site, and others, and it still seems possible to get a nice Cobra, possibly only needing engine, transmission, and paint, for something in that neighborhood. Not a lot of goodies added at that price, but they can be added later. Most used Cobras I see are well above the $30K range. I guess I'll keep looking.

[SSS]

Originally posted by landerson

And yes, I realize that this is a lot to hope for in the >$30K range. I've done some more research on this site, and others, and it still seems possible to get a nice Cobra, possibly only needing engine, transmission, and paint, for something in that neighborhood.

No drivetrain or paint? Then $30k is a very reachable number.

[Tinker51]

Welcome Lane,
It has been said a couple of times here but it is worth repeating. What you think you can build one for and what you can actually build one for are almost never anywhere close to each other. This is really for a couple of reasons. One, plans change as the build progresses. You may have envisioned a donor build but then things get out of hand and you end up with some monster motor that cost almost as much as the kit alone. The more likely suspect is that there are tons of incidental small costs that add up over the course of a build. When I was looking I sat down and took a guess at what I could build the car I wanted for, then found some guys who had about what I wanted and asked them what it actually cost. I was not even close. If you go a pure donor route then yes I think it can be done for around 30K but you don't have to do too many "extra" things to go way out from there. Also yes, dropped foot boxes are a good thing. At 6'5" and 230 lbs. I fit better and can drive more easily in cars with dropped footboxes. Hope this helps and happy hunting.

[Edley Rondinone]

Lane: Keep looking! There ARE deals to be had for the person in the right place and the right time! I dont have PS; dont think it is really needed. My Cobra is lite enough that even parking lots are easy. I dont have A/C either; A/C WOULD be nice; 90+ degree days, if you are not moving, CAN be rather toasty! Use lots of sunscreen and a hat!

[foothills gary]

You may want to look at some of the factory built cars,such as Backdraft,or Superformance.The Superformance I recently drove fit me like a finely tailored suit!Compare the build quality with what you can achieve.Having built a car before with what I consider an excellent result,I could in no way duplicate the quality of the factory built cars for the same dollars.These things have a way of snowballing into many more dollars than expected.MY wife,who is an interior designer would compare it to a home remodel-it will probably take twice as long and cost twice as much...I'm 6'1'',195#,by the way.In the southeast,you may want to talk to the people at Unique-very nice folks to chat with,with an excellent car.ERA also has a great website,with much information on the street(roadster) version of the Cobra.They told me that you will probably lose about 40h.p. by taking pipes out the back.The roadster version is a really sweet variation,especially when done without hoodscoop and rollbar,as original.There was more choices of original colors as well.

[Tony Radford]

Lane, have you driven a Cobra yet? I can't imagine that a Cobra would meet the expectations you set forth in your opening message. From a safety standpoint, I don't think one would fare well in anything beyond a slow-moving fender-kisser. The first time I jumped in my car for a test ride, I was pretty surprised over the difference in feel after spending decades in refined production automobiles. But since I was looking for a radical-performing, fire-breathing, thumpty-thumping road-rocket, it worked out well. The awesomely sexy looks of the Cobra body might not be enough to maintain your enthusiasm if the other parameters don't excite you. After all, it's not a car, it's a cult!

[landerson]

Tony,

No, I haven't driven a Cobra. I have restored and driven a couple of old British sports cars. I know the Cobra will be MUCH more powerful (yea!) and probably no less refined (no more unrefined?).

I expect this to be quite a change from my daily driver. That's part of the reason for wanting one. I like the elemental aspect of a car like the Cobra, and I don't mind some sacrifices to experience it. I've pretty much decided against all "wimp" options (PS, PB), and I'm willing to give up the A/C although that'll limit the pleasure of driving it for several months of the year. Oh well, at least we don't have much of a winter here.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Lane

[luke-44]

Lane - I am about 6-9 months ahead of you on research - you have missed what I consider one of the best values out there - take a look at the deluxe pallet car from Unique. It is incredible value for $23k. The as-is finish on this car is so good you can drive it for a year before painting it. Powder coated frame, Wilwood brakes, IRS, etc, etc. - this car is the real deal. Plus, the Weavers have an impecible reputation - real nice people. I strongly suggest, being as you are in SC, that you pop over and visit them. If you are the engineer-type, you will sell yourself on it.

My budget allows me to stretch a few $$ beyond the limit you gave, so I am going ERA, but, it wasn't an easy decision. The Unique is real nice - especially if you like the 289FIA.

Good luck, luke-44

http://www.uniquemotorcars.com/

PS - Their owners also have a fairly new website/bb -

http://www.uniquecobra.com/

[Doug I]

I've been looking at all the kits & turnkey minus companies for a while now .....

1. PS is possible but NOT needed
2. Undercar exhaust is rare - but ya can't get 'bitten' when they are under there.
3. EFI/Carb - EFI more reliable ? Carb easier to play with yourself ? EFI better fuel management ? I'd ask the engine builders what their opinions are, and experience is.
4. IRS/Live - I'd go IRS but that's me. For most driving a Live would be fine, but when push comes to shove (say when your drifting thru a turn to come out on the racing line with the hammer down hard) IRS would probably be better.
5. Accident resistance performance - about the same as a motorcycle - regardless of the brand of car.
6. From what I've read you'd fit in them all, but maybe that extra 2" some have will be a little more comfortable.
7. AC - don't know
8. builders in SE - must be some if not plenty.
9. Vendors - your own reasearch will answer that 1 over time.

On your choices, I'd put Unique in (or back in) the mixing bowl. I don't own 1, and have not seen 1, but those that do have them love em and the cost is right in there considering the other names on your list.

Keep researching :-)

[Hal Copple]

one of my favorite things to do, is to drive my SPF down to Charleston, i live about 200 mi away, near Charlotte. I just love idleing down King Street, or parking out on the Battery, or in front of the Brewery, or outside Magnolia's.

I would not consider AC, radio, or other comfort things as the least bit necessary in a Southern Driven Replica. I just put on a new shirt if i am sweaty.

So what if i get a little wet in a downpour, or my eyes get bloodshot from the sun and the wind, or i have to tickle the Pro Holley carb when it wants to boil over in the summer.

I think driving one of these beasts is sorta like riding a Ducati, or a barely broken Quarterhorse, or being in a relationship with an exotic dancer.

Nothing there that doesn't mean performance.

Someday you will be too old and feeble to drive, and the opportunity to drive one of these cars will be gone forever. If you are up to it, the sacrifices will be worth it, for the experience of "the ride."

[got snake?]

I have driven a cobra with power steering. Don't do it. Its too twitchy. And you get no road feel what so over. At least on the cobra I drove. It was a Midstates. Talk to Bob Kallio. he had Power brakes also. that was nice...

GS

[foothills gary]

I agree-no power steering! It simply is not needed,and is one more power robber thet looks out of place under the hood.These cars in general are so easy to steer,you're not aware of the actual steering process.I have never driven a Cobra with power steering,but can't imagine how the manual steering could be improved by adding it.

[jayhawk261]

Hello Lane,

I notice you asked a bit about RUCC. I have spent some time with Roger Upton in his shop recently working on his race car to prepare it for the Tulsa Shelby meet that happens in June. He is still in business and actually has a kit with an IRS ready to sell right now (unless he sold in the last couple of weeks). You can check out the car at www.rucarcrafters.com

A few things about Roger's car:

It is a backbone chassis, and what that means is that it has a center section created of steel tubing around the transmission tunnel. What this does is provide a larger effective cross sectional area of the steel which in turn gives it a much greater resistance to twising under heavy loads. In engineering terms, it has a greater moment of inertia and therefore a greater section modulus.

The body of his car has almost zero flex. I rode with him on a windy road at fairly high speeds and I kept my finger in the little gap between the door and the body as we went. It did not move in and out and pinch my finger. With a ladder frame design, the body flexes because it is asked to proved structural rigidity. This gap is one place you can actullay see this concept in action.

There is plenty of room in Rogers car for tall people. He worked and worked to get every last bit of cockpit space out of. I've seen a 6'4" + tall man race an RUCC car and say that it was comfortable. He said he had never been able to race a 90" WB Cobra before.

Roger is a super nice guy and does everything he can to take care of his customers. In the past, he has had some dificulty providing some of the components for his cars to to circumstances beyond his control. To date though, he has made good on what he said he would and is now in a position where he can move ahead with new clients. At this point, he only wants to build a maximum of 6 cars a year. Like I said, he has one ready to go. If you have trouble reaching him, e-mail me and I'll make sure you can get in touch with him.

If 100% originality is what you're looking for, then RUCC isn't for you. If you want a strong chassis that drives and feels like a factory built car, then it is definitely worth looking into.

Sorry to be so long winded,

Randy Nicholson

[landerson]

Hal,

I hope I see you the next time you're down here with your car. I've only seen a couple here so far - one black, one red with white stripes. Was one of them you?

I've pretty much been convinced on the A/C thing. It means I'll have to keep my daily driver for those hot commutes to/from work. Oh well, that way I wouldn't have to get the Cobra too wet in some of the downpours we have. It just makes the financial side a little more problematic.

To everyone whose commented on the Unique: It sounds like I need to give them another look. I like the idea of them being in the same part of the country, too. I do appreciate the helpfull comments.

Lane

[aumoore]

Lane
I have a 90" WB Hunter and I am only 5'-10". If I was any taller I would opt for Hunters 96" WB. I have drove a 96" WB car and it feels like you could take a nap in it with all the extra room. Randy does this by making a 6" longer door and splicing in a 6" body section below the door. The Frame is easy to make longer as well.

If you use a good quality rack & Pinion like the Flaming River unit Hunter uses you will not need power steering. I can turn the wheels with the car at rest much easier than my old non power steering '66 mustang.

Randy does offer a power brake unit where he has adapted a small Japaneese car unit to his pedal box. Effective and inexpensive.

AC to me takes away from the raw nature of a Cobra and will add weight and cost to your car. I make a fresh air system for my car and it helps keep air flowing around the foot box area. I live in Florida and I just carry an extra shirt if I drive it in the summer.

A toneau cover is in my futrue plans as it would be nice to be able to go out in the car and leave it outside without fear of the rain showers we get almost every day. A top is ok but the ones I have seen and road in let in about as much water as not haveing one at all.