So what constitutes a factory built car ?

[BT SNAKE]

I was skimming through one of the Kit Car publications and noticed that a couple ads seem to refer to "Factory built". It made me stop and think about just exactly what makes their cars factory built. Is it because they are physically built in a factory so now they can say they were built in a factory?. Or maybe they are built on an assembly line just as Ford or GM cars are with union labor. To me, a factory built car means the product comes comeplete with all the componants and ordered options. This also would include all the required safety equipment and crash impact tests. At least that's what I think a factory built car is to me.
I could be wrong about all this but that seems to be the key word in selling Preassembled kits without engines and trans' these days.
If it would help me sell more cars I guess I would use the word Factory too.

Hersh

[Excaliber]

Hmmm,,,now theres a can of worms. OK, SPF gotta be "factory built". Kirkham COULD be or not, depends on how you order the,,,,,the,,,,,uh,,,,,"kit"? Man that don't sound right!

What the heck makes a car a "kit"?

Ernie

[casaleenie]

I would reccommend that if you apply for insurance it's called a "factory built" car no matter what it is!!!

[PSB]

I find it ironic that the "factory built cars" have to say "parts" on the shipping documents, as a "car" would have to pass all the safety/enviromental/ect regulations in order to be sold in the US.

So is a "factory built car" or "factory built parts"? :lol: If it's parts, wouldn't that be a kit?


Pete

[ddimick]

If you want to use SB100 in California to register your car, it better _not_ be called factory built!

I would say that any car that comes from the manufacturer completed, including drivetrain and everything else required to immediately drive on the highway, is factory built.

[Boudy]

BT Snake: Good question. It's interesting that the first question I get is always, "Is it a kit?" Since I represent a car that isn't offered as a kit, my answer is always, "No, it's a factory built replica." I guess it comes down to what that means.

Is it factory built or manufacturer built?

A factory is a dedicated sole purpose facility. A true factory built car would be built in one of these facilities with assembly line proceedures and quality control measures in place. I don't think crast test data has anything to do with weather a car is factory built or not, though.

A manufacturer built car, which also benefits from calling cars factory built, is built in a facility dedicated to producing and shipping kits. The one I visited would clean out a bay and grab one of the guys to bolt one together. How your car was bolted together depends on who was chosen that time. This type of car could have inconsistantcies and quality control isssues.

All in all, the whole thing is to ensure the customer that the car was built with some sort of quality control standards. Kits are great, but if you're in the market, you have no way to know who built the car or to what standards. I've seen finished kits that were so nice that it was unbelievable. But then there are a few death traps out there as well.

Also, there is the warranty issue. Now that so many cars are being built and not being shipped as kits, customers are able to receive warranties. A guy who wants to build his own car could care less, but to others, it's a plus.

Again, good thread. I look forward to hearing some other opinions.

Boudy

[Excaliber]

ddimick,,,,,well that rules out SPF! You have to contract with a SECOND provider of some kind to get the engine installed. Uh,,,,THEN is it still "Factory Built"?

If DV builds it, I would think it's a Custom Built.

Good point about the Kalif connection by the way!

,,,the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out.

Ernie

[Boudy]

I haven't seen other MSO's, but the BDR's MSO states that it origionated as a kit. It may be legal thing, it may have to state that so that DOT rules don't filter into play.

Boudy

[BT SNAKE]

Ernie,
My intent was to aquire a truthful approach as to what a Factory car is. I honestly am not attempting to open a can a worms here. If they say it's factory built that's fine. I just want to understand how they come about the process of calling a car Factory Built.
I like Boudy's explanation and he took my Question as it was meant to be taken , non-hostile. It's getting to be where everyone now is paranoid about a flamer post. I'm just trying to get a little clearity here. I also like the "Custom Built" answer that you gave Ernie, makes sense.

Hersh

[Carroll DeWeese]

THe auto manufactures are increasingly having more and more work done by suppliers and then they "assemble" the car in a factory (i.e., "factory assembled"). A "part" is not just a particular piece but a whole grouping pre-assembled as a complete piece. This complete piece is then put with other complete pieces to create the final product.

Some of the limited production vehicles but the major manufactures are built very much like an SPF, except the final assembler is a "manufacturer" instead of an individual. Major pieces may be assembled by a manufacturer and then a custom shop may make the final assembly and tweaks. The manufacturer then sells and markets the finished product under their name. Sometimes the manufacturer sets specs and oversees the process but all the work is done by someone else. Still the finished product is marketed and sold as if the manufacturer did the work.

"Factory built" or "factory assembled" to me implies a certain degree of quality control, repeatability, consistency, and expertise as compared to "kit built". Under the laws of Michigan my SPF is an "assembled vehicle" with myself as the assembler, regardless of who did the actual work. If it is not treated as an assembled vehicle, then I have to meet all standards that would apply to GM, FOrd, etc. for a new vehicle offered to sale to the public. I would have to meet many safety, environmental, and other standards for a "new" vehicle. As a custom, assembled vehicle, I am allowed to produce a vehicle that only must meet minimal standards for streetablility (e.g., mirrors, windshield wipers, tail lights, turn signals, etc.).

My car is as "factory assembled" as any prototype and many limited production vehicles. SPF did the rolling body and Ford Racing did the engine and transmission install. People with the best expertise in specific areas used their expertise to produce my vehicle. NO individual that I know is fully qualified in all areas of assembly. At its extreem definition, "kit" implies something put together from individual parts by one individual.

Think of "kit" and "factory" as two ends of a continuum. Reality alway falls somewhere in between the two. Some so-called "kit cars" are better assembled than some "factory cars", but in general "factory cars " have more repaetability, consistency. etc. than "kit cars."

This does not necessarily make the factory cars better. It depends upon what is valued most. A "custom" work of art is a one of a kind. It requires custom craftsmanship. Factories are not normally set up to build originals. To the extent that it is made in a factory it is normally no longer custom or original. Factories, with quality control, etc., may make very good copies. It all depends upon what is needed and wanted.

Just because it is "kit" or "factory" does not in itself make it good or bad. The finished result compared to what is desired is the true test.

[Excaliber]

Hersh,,,,,remain calm, it's a GOOD question, LOL. I like a good can of worms myself, it's thought provoking when done right. But I hear you, controversial can turn into confrontational in a heart beat around here!

FFR "Factory Built"? No way, they offer ONLY a kit (as far as I know).

Ernie

[Fox]

Mine is to built in the factory, just off the kitchen.

Factory vs. Kit
1964 AC/Shelby Cobra vs. 1982 Shelby/Dodge Omni
CSX 2000 vs. CSX 4000
Shelby's kit vs. Kirkhams kit
Alunimium vs. Fiberglass... Which is the 'real' deal?

It's getting so hard to tell. To me it's all more or less a play on words.

All I know is I'm gonna get one! -John

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by BT SNAKE



I like Boudy's explanation and he took my Question as it was meant to be taken , non-hostile. It's getting to be where everyone now is paranoid about a flamer post. I'm just trying to get a little clearity here. I also like the "Custom Built" answer that you gave Ernie, makes sense.

Hersh [/b]

Hersh,

Nothing paranoid here... Re-read all the answers and none seems out of line. You asked a question and you got some response. They can't all be to your liking..
Luv ya,

[HIQ]

I believe many confuse Factory Built with Professionaly Built. Factory Built - Built in a purpose built facility in an assembly line. Refers to the physical location.

Professionaly Built - Could be built in a warehouse or a garage, but the guy who is doing it does it for a living and therefore should be good at it. Refers to builder, not locatation.

Using SPF as an example - Car delivered as a roller is a facory built SPF. A Cobra delivered from one of their dealers as a turn key would be a Professional Factory Built SPF.

[Edley Rondinone]

"Factory-built" (or Manufacturer-built") means it was built by people that are/were paid to build that particular "car." Usually, on an assembly line, the same person puts the same bolts in the same holes every time. Some factories are less assembly-line, in that a group of guys get together and assemble a car, from start to finish, with time "break-ups" to facilitate time-consuming factors, ie painting, wiring, dyno testing, et al. Hopefully, most manufacturers have some sort of QC on that line. A LOT of variables involved here. In some, if not most instances, a "factory-built" car IS built to a higher standard of quality. AND, in some cases, a "home-built" (NOT home-made!) car is built to a higher standard of quality, due to the unlimited amount of labor that the home-builder is able to donate to the cause. All in all, factory-built usually means professionally-built.

[BT SNAKE]

Thanks guys, you have help me with what I needed to know.
I guess maybe I was a little paranoid too. I didn't want it to seem as though I was trying to start a controvercial thread about their factory built cars. I guess it was the can a worms thing...Sorry Ernie..
Cas...I wasn't trying to get an answers to my liking..Honest

Hersh

[johnd9]

Someone noted above the importance of whether something is quote; "built in a factory or by the owner as a kit" for insurance purposes. I would love to hear some of those who have built the kits and what your experiences were getting insurance. Since I just bought my Cobra, my experience is fresh and I will recount it here.

Mine is a factory built Lonestar. Now what factory built means in terms of quality control, or unions I do not know but Lonestar has a pretty impressive facility and they take a great deal of time putting together their cars. But when I started calling around for insurance I immediately wiped the sweat off my brow that I had a factory build. First of all, if you buy a Cobra at all, a good portion of the insurance companies I talked to, would not insure it period due to the number of fatalities in them. When I did get in touch with the ones that would, they said they would not insure a "kit" as in, built by the owner.

If you are a newbie out there and are at the crux of this decision - whether to factory build or build yourself- at least as far as insurance is concerned, I would strongly recommend to have it built in the factory!

J

[Nuke427]

Insurance couldn't care less if your car was built in a factory with quality controls and by union workers. If it's a reproduction of a 65' Cobra, they will insure it as such or as a special construction of the year it was finished. I guess if your insurance company is incompetent then they may insure a Cobra Lonestar that was built at Lonestar different than if I built it in my back yard. Don't have any idea what the heck the difference would be, but if your insurance company is buying it, great. So contrary to what Johnd9 is advising, it won't make a difference if your car was factory built by Superformance, BDR, Venom or whoever. I guess it may if you call Johnd9's agent.

[johnd9]

Just telling you what I ran into.

J

[rlearp]

Actually, not to derail a subject, but I really like that term "Hand Built Supercar" and how that is defined.

If Ferrari/Lotus/Etc. (Insert your favortie marque here) builds a car, and that car is produced with limited volume, and resources, with parts from raiding everyone's factory parts bins cause they can't afford to make a blinker or window switch, it gets the lofty title of "Hand Built Supercar". As in, "Did you know my XYZ was hand built in Italy by craftsmen?"

However, if you, Joe Schmo, maybe a car builder from way back, was to build your car from some parts, then it doesn't get that lofty title. It gets called a "Kit Car". And, those fellows with XYZ;s tend to look down on you as if you were a low form of life. Obviously, I'm exagerrating a bit (well maybe not, you tell me) but I think you get the point.

Interesting terms that surround these cars we love. And, no matter what, they're still just cars. Just inantimate objects that could care less how they were contructed. When the rubber meets the road it all works out.

R