If Chevrolet would have said YES.... (Cobra Related)

[Edley Rondinone]

There's ALL SORTS of 30s, 40s, and 50s Fords running around L.A with the Flatheads...dont see much of the 40s or 50s Chevys around at all...you cant be serious about saying Offy-powered Chevy sixes were beating Fords Flathead V-8s on the track and on the strip....only times my '65 Mustang with a 351C and a toploader/VertiGate shifter lost was to a Hemi 'Cuda on the dragstrip, and a Ferrari 308 on the freeway!! I was regularly beating ALL the new cars up until 1990, when those pesky lil' 5.0 Mustangs were beginning to show their mettle!! I think beating the self-proclaimed Kings of the Hill in their Camaros was the best!!!

[G.R.]

Hey Ernie,
FWIW my brother-in-law is still driving his dad's 1951 5 window, 235 - 6 , 3 on the tree, hasn't done a whole lot to it -- drives about 40miles rt to work daily and has for close to 14 yrs since he got the truck when his dad passed away. Richard bought it new in fall of 50--drove it until just before he passed away

Also I have several friends whose families farm in Colorado, a lot of them have "ditch runners" that are pre-55 Chevy PU's, plus "beet and onion trucks", 1 1/2 or 2 ton they use for all kinds of things and especially at harvest. I'm not a mechanic but when you get into farm and ranch country you see lots of these early Chev's running around with the same engine it came from the factory with the 235 cu in Chevy 6--dippers and all--so that engine must be pretty sound IMO

[G.R.]

Bill
Probably could have in straight line--but that Fairlane couldn't keep up with me in some of the "twisties" we'd occasionaly run
like I've said,-- of course in every town there was always someone quicker and faster than you--sort of like gunfighters in the old west, eventually there was someone with a bullet with your name on it

[G.R.]

Ed
For the most part the 30s, 40s, and the early 50 fords are and always have been sought after cars--who wouldn't like to have a '49 Merc or a 32 coupe or a 53 "big window" pu--that is why you see so many Fords on the streets--usually they are a semi-streetrod though , don't think I could picture someone in LA driving a 33 Vicky to work everyday with a stock flathead---

Yes I'm serious the Offy six was a serious performance engine and it took a lot of, local, regional, and national titles in dirt and circle track racing, as well as had some class titles in the early drag racing days---yes it beat Ford flatheads

[misfit41]

The chevy engine I meant was the pre 53 babbit rod motor,,it was junk,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the later 235 I think "blue flame" first came in the 53 vette,,it is a horse,,,,,,,,,,
of course we all kow ford is the truck king,,that isnt questioned,the ford trucks were always superior in everyway to gm and has the sales numbers to prove it,,
55,56,57 fords out sold chevys by a great deal in retail sales,chevy sold large numbers of govt and military contracts "they were cheaper} which makes the numbers look off,but I suppose it is still more in actual numbers,,just not retail sales.
of course then as today car makes each have their own way to quote numbers,making each look the best.
lastly,,the flathead was and is a wonderful,reliable motor,the only inherient problem were valve seats cracking,due to the poor steel of the day,with updated seats these things run forever,the old timers used to say the only way to ruin a flathead ford was to run without oil or water,any one ever notice all the old gray ford tractors still alive ? the ones prior to 1952 ,{Millions of them} use a simular motor,most are 4 cyls,but many were v8's like the cars,thousands are still in use in mexico where hey are considered top of the line,,most of the old cars and trucks were upgrade to over head valves because although solid,a stock flathead wont get out of it's own way
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,Tk

[Excaliber]

1953 sounds about right for the "Blue Flame" new Chev 6 with inserts and all.

In 1969 when Grampa's 51 Chev engine "died" we couldn't find a shop who could redo the babbit bearings on the motor. We decided to "up-grade" to the newer 235.

Hey, how about those 292 Chev 6's? Now THERE was a power house of a motor!

Ernie

[misfit41]

your right Ernie,,292s were good,I just remembered the frst v 6 I ever saw,,it was in my dads friends 1963 gmc 4x4 truck
I was like 13 ,,that was the local curiosity,,V6 ? 4wheel drive,people drove for miles to see it,,hahah,,but then we didnt have much to do on sat nights here,,,,,,Tk

[Excaliber]

Ha ha,,,,I hope Island Creature is feeling all better now!

Did you know.........

That early GMC V-6 (what a monster that was) was also available as a V-12? Yup! Factory option in some on the BIG over the road trucks back in the day! Two V-6's put end to end!

Ernie

[bmalone]

Sorry, Gary have to disagree. I was know for having it on two wheels through the backroads. Usually put more distance on a car than I would have otherwise done in a straight line.

I had also a '65 Mustang conv. w/ 289 2V that people swore had a 390 in it. Now that car really got after it on the backroads. You could keep it floored the whole time.

My Dad has always used that line ever since I can remember--there is always someone faster than you out there. In my case it was a '66 427 Vette--but hey, thats what lead me to buy the Cobra all these years later.

Remember, I bleed Ford blue.

[Eddy K]

OOPS! Did I touch a nerve?
Yes it was a 302. It was not .030 over but a stock bore.
I merely stated that it was similiar to what Chevrolet was putting in the Corvette at the time.
Also, I never said that I was never beaten. I said I didn't remember being beaten by a Corvette on the strip. It may have happened and probably did, I just don't recall that it ever did.
That was 30 yrs ago for chrissake!!
I just stated that the 289/302 engine could and did hold it's own with the small block Chevy. I stick by that.
Also, getting back to the thread, had Chevrolet said yes, there wouldn't be a Cobra in my garage today.
I don't hate Chevrolets, they just aren't my thing.

[misfit41]

I agree a bit Eddy,, sad thing is almost no one built sbf's ten,,they chucked them out and out in a big block,,then again there wernt that many parts,,But wasnt it 385 hp Carroll Shelby said was the dependibile max for a 289 ? that was 1963 for crissake,
Ford had a stock block,pushrod 260 at 376 hp,{only 7200 rpm},and the dohc model was 475 on alky,,those are big numbers.
I think finally the small block ford has replaced the chevy for cheap hp,I went to watch a young guy from here dial in his fox body mustang,stock short block 302 with 68000 miles,head and carb work,,cam and nos,,6.37 ,I cant remember the speed,and consistant in the low 6:40's ,thats rolling.I like it,,Tk

[BeanCounter]

I had a '59 Corvette for years. 283 FI, close ratio Muncie 4 speed, 4.11 rear end running N50 Mickey Thompson tires on the back and skinnies on the front. Ran pretty good in a straight line but whoa on the curves. King pinned front end just like my old tractor and that solid rear end just didn't make for a road race car. Funny thing is my FFR reminds me a lot of that car, the vette was Snowcrest White while my FFR is solid Perfect White. Back ends similar, same neck jerking acceleration. I sold it when my boy ran his bicycle pedal down the side two weeks after I finished spending 3 months on a complete new body and paint job. This time I'm prepared, I'm building a separate wall in my building so the FFR stays away from the grandsons gokarts.

[Eddy K]

TK, if you would like to see some small block Fords in action you can go to Beech Bend this weekend for the NMRA Nationals. The Pro 5.0 cars are a blast to watch.
Also at Hardinsburg this sat night there will be an Outlaw Street Cars Assn race. This is open to all brands although the small block Mustangs on Nos usually come out on top. This is a great race to watch and only about an hour from you.

[Eddy K]

Has everone forgotten about the 300 ci Ford six? This was a very good engine and a power maker also.
One six cylinder drag racer in Louisville had raced the inline Chevy six for years and did quite well with it.
That was until a man from Tenn came along with the 300 Ford six with a siamesed Cleveland head on it. There was no way that he could compete with the Ford so he made the switch himself and was right back in the ballgame.
As a matter of fact he was faster than the Tenn. car and won several NHRA events with that engine.

[Excaliber]

I did race my Mustang 302 against my brothers Barracuda with the 273 solid lifter dual point distributor.

Results depended mostly on which one of us had screwed up his motor the most by "tinkering" with it on any given weekend. LOL

Ernie

[G.R.]

Guys
Hope no one took offense to my Ford bashing

Bill
2 wheels in the curves I kept all 4 on the ground--seriusly though you'd kicked my heinie once we went to third in that Fairlane--"always someone, quicker, faster, "

[G.R.]

Eddy K
Nope no nerves touched here--I had a limited production Camaro TAS--SB, set up with sway bars, a bit lower stance--it actually was more fun on twisty roads--I was beat by Dodges, Plymouths, and Fords--but I won my fair share against the same--it really doesn't make a difference we owned them and they were fast--sometimes faster than anyone else on the block--for awhile

Bill
I sure hope you never need a transfusion At least we agree to disagree--and not not take it personally

[Excaliber]

300 Ford six, oh yeah! But the coolest 6 cyl off all time????

Pontiac! OHC baby, four barrel from the factory, mid 60's!! Not that the guy I knew ever won any races with it, but it LOOKED pretty cool. Thats gotta count for something.

Bernie, like the 59 Vette didn't all ready have enough "draw backs" now you tell us it had king pin suspension on the front too? Wew, hard for me to imagine it would have been a "threat" to Ferrari anytime before 1963, 64 at least.

My favorite "story" of the Cobra vs Vette was that early 60's race where the driver (was that Ken Miles?) pulled into the pits and LET all the Vettes pass just so he could go out and PASS them again! He finished second place, first was another Cobra. They didn't "just" beat the Vettes, they humiliated them.

Ernie

[Eddy K]

Yes they did humiliate them.
I saw my first Cobra at the local dragstrip. It was a red one from a Ford dealer in Louisville.
It was on street tires and every time the guy would shift you could hear the tires chirp.
There were five Corvettes there and the Cobra whipped them all with ease. It also beat a 421 Pontiac Catalina that had the three duece setup and was finally beaten by a 427 Thunderbolt Fairlane but just barely.
It was that night that I knew that someday I would have one.

[bmalone]

All in good fun Gary--gashole, and you are a good sport.

BTW, can't help how I was raised--no chevies in the family. Have never owned one; never will.