SBF vs SBC

leslie.files · #1 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 09:03 AM

Does anybody know the comparative weights of a 351w motor in comparison to a 350 chev, all iron w/ alum intake. Thinking of using one of my mod motors since i trashed my351. spun the thrust bearing, tore up the block in that area. I have 3 decent sbc motors left from racing dirt mods, thinking I might as well use one of them. need to know the weight differences for front springs and sway bar. Thanks

RallySnake · #2 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 12:28 PM

Leslie,

Check this out: http://britishv8.org/swaps/motors.htm

I have been looking for a great Ford engine to replace my 350 someday. But, your last topic put a scare in me. All these problems!

I've beat the he!! out of my old '69 Camaro engine since 1988. I've played with three different cams and four intake manifolds and three carburetors, to see what difference they made. I managed to break a piston ring and spin a harmonic balancer and wear out the old distributor over the years, but nothing as serious as you described. Running 8 and 16 hour rallies with a lot of high revs doesn't bother it at all. Maybe I better leave it alone?

Paul

leslie.files · #3 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 12:48 PM

Paul, thanks for the info. I don't know if the thrust bearing was already going or not. I picked up the motor used and was running when I pulled it from the car it was in. I bought the whole car for parts. The chart doesn't show a 351w only 302, are the weights comp or is the 351 heavier? Thanks again!

RallySnake · #4 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 01:08 PM

I knew I had it here somewhere, try this:

http://www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.html

It shows the Cleveland at 550 pounds and the Winsor at 510. My aluminum headed SBC is 525.

Paul

rdorman · #5 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 01:58 PM

......... and get an aluminum head Cleveland!
Rick

Bart Carter · #6 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 02:11 PM

Ford advertised its 351 Windsor at 65 lbs. more than the 302 in 1969. That was with iron heads, iron manifolds, and carb.

AL head and intake plus tube headers = weight than the 302.

The Windsor has a heavier, reinforced block. A 408 stroker is known as a reliable 500 plus HP combination.

RallySnake · #7 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 02:35 PM

Rick and Bart,

I've put 100,000 miles on my old motor including 6 Starlite Rallies from Santa Barbara to Las Vegas at serious speeds. How many miles have you driven your engines?

I really like the thought of the 427 stroker kit in the 351 block, but the rod angles worry me. Do you have any idea long the 408 combo will last?

Paul

rdorman · #8 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 02:42 PM

"How many miles have you driven your engines?" I am not sure what you are getting at. I have blown up virtually every type of engine at one point or another! The most bullet proof out of the box in my long trail of broken parts of the old american iron has been the Cleveland.

From what I understand the 427 stroker can be questionable from a reliability standpoint. The concensious seems to be stick with the 408 or smaller on the strokers. I am sure there are different oppinions on this one but I have the same misgivings as you on the 427 stroker.

Rick

RallySnake · #9 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 02:45 PM

What I'm getting at is, running long distance events across the desert is a really bad place to break down. I would rather build a less radical engine and feel confident that it will get us to the finish. The many reports of SBF engine failures makes me wonder if my plan to upgrade is going in the right direction. Your advice is important to me here.

If money were no object, this thing would go in my car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2434899906

Isn't that beautiful?

Paul

rdorman · #10 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 03:20 PM

Incredible engine there on ebay, but you want to talk about a lower level of reliability! The SOHC can live up to fix or repair daily. But very cool!

I have not heard much in the way of failures in SBF. Every engine fails in some way eventually. Take that back, I have seen what seems to be a higher rate in the Ford crate motors. Which I would not buy any ways. Don't break them in and no warrenty, fa get about it!

My thoughts:
Don't go wild with the stroker. Don't buy from a builder that doesn't have a spotless reputation. Don't push the engine to get the power you want, build a bigger engine (build an engine that will easily make the amount of power you want)! Don't buy the motor unless the builder broke it in on a dyno. Don't run without proper fuel, oil and ignition systems (don't forget the rev limiter). Don't expect a 500 HP motor to last as long as a 300 HP motor (all else being equal, you stress it more, it will not last as long).

I really don't think that any one of the big threes old iron is more reliable than the other. Like the bearing spining. Usually a simptom of some other problem.

Still love the Cleveland though!

Rick

Excaliber · #11 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 05:21 PM

Fact is most of us drive Ford engines. Percentage wise your going to hear about more Fords breaking down around here than Chevys by far!!! Not to mention you KNOW Cobra guys WILL find a way to break something.

I recall some years back when you could buy 350 Chev V-8's pretty cheap and plentiful. Seemed like everyone I knew was putting one in something! And LOT'S of them were blowing up right and left! It's all about how you build it and how you drive it!

Consider Dr. Hal with his SPF and 351. He's got what, 50 or 60K miles on the car? Drag strip's, road tracks, long distance highway cruising, top speed runs. Here's a guy who DOES NOT baby his machine. It's all about how it was built and HOW you drive it!

Ernie

Bart Carter · #12 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Excaliber It's all about how it was built and HOW you drive it!

Exactly!

The company I trusted my engine build to was Levy Racing . They can build mild to wild. They match all parts to enhance the flow. This maximizes HP at any chosen level. Only use the best parts. I went a little on the wild side:

leslie.files · #13 (**permalink**) 09-30-2003, 05:57 PM

I didn't want to confuse the issue. This was not a new, rebuilt, or crate motor. It appeared to be a good running 351w in a 1985 Mustang when I bought it. It had some mild upgrades like KB flattops, ARP rodbolts, and good cam and worked heads. I just wanted to know weights so that I could use equipment that I already have, without reinvesting in another engine. If I could afford to build a mod SBF I would for my project. Hope nobody takes offense. Thanks for the input!

RallySnake · #14 (**permalink**) 10-01-2003, 11:20 AM

Leslie or Tohmar (whatever you name is),

You are bringing up a valid and controveral issue. Don't let the idea exchange in this forum bother you. I'm one to play devil's advocate just to see how people really feel and learn something. No one's going to lose any sleep over it.

I've had a really a good experience with my 350 with Ford valve covers for a lot of years. I ENJOY seeing the snob's eyes blink and the sharp intake of a breath when I point out the distributor in the rear. To me, the Cobra is the world's greatest toy and it's just not important enough to be taken SO seriously.

If I upgrade my engine, it is to get a BETTER one. If that's an LT1 or rotary turbo or BMW inline 6, so be it! Whatever I choose will be built by me. Sure I'll have the machine work done professionally, but I will be checking the tolerences and filing the rings and micing the journals and putting it all together. I will not trust anyone to do this for me. It must be as perfect as possible. I like the narrowness of the Winsor engine. It's a very compact power plant that can make plenty of power. The question here is, for how long? All replies are welcome. You will not hurt my feelings!

Paul

leslie.files · #15 (**permalink**) 10-01-2003, 04:17 PM

Paul I appreciate the reply. I guess that I have been racing to long, I usually ruffle features when I say things, maybe that's just with the crowd that I race against. Tohmer is my nickname it means: The only hell mom ever raised. It has been stuck on me since 7th grade. Where did you get Ford valve covers that fit a SBC? I also found out why the thrust bearing spun, hard packed crud in the oil runner. No oil no fun. Block not fixable according to the machine shop. Thanks again for the reply

RallySnake · #16 (**permalink**) 10-01-2003, 05:11 PM

Tohmer, that's a great story!

There's a little hotrod shop in Sun Valley called Frantic Freddy's. Once in a while he casts a set of adapters for the rocker covers. Good luck with whatever you choose.

Paul