Wht twin points set up? What setting?

Chiperb · #1 (**permalink**) 11-16-2003, 02:54 PM

My new to me Daytona withe a carbed 302 was running badly ie missing. Checked and found it had a dual points set up. advantage? Hotter spark?-only has one condenser. Is an Accel product (stamped on the back)

What gap should I set the new ones at?.16? more/less? Still stumbles when bringing the revs yp from idle after the new points/condenser installed (old were badly worn) Stil need to cure that stumble all help apprciated. chip in Atlanta

Junket · #2 (**permalink**) 11-16-2003, 04:02 PM

OK will give the points a shot had a dual point set in the 70" used a dwell meter to set them set them independent with the other blocked open with a matchbook @32 with a total of both 34-36 degrees. I didn't set them in thousands so I don't know. I am sure someone could do better.
Ken

Cal Metal · #3 (**permalink**) 11-16-2003, 04:40 PM

I would suggest 25-28 degrees with a total dwell of 32. 34-36 might cause the timing too be just a bit retarded. You want them advanced a little more than that. Try both ways and see how the performance is. I used to spend my life doing these on Corvettes.

Like Junket says, use a dwell meter and bridge across your solenoid, using it as a remote starter switch. Keep the ignition key in the on position and measure the dwell. Using a feeler gauge is too subjective.

Chiperb · #4 (**permalink**) 11-16-2003, 05:12 PM

Wat is a swell meter? Never used one? What are you measuring? "Swell" angle of what? cb

Cal Metal · #5 (**permalink**) 11-16-2003, 05:57 PM

DWELL. It measures the time interval between the closing cycle of distributor points. A DWELL meter measure how long the points are closed in a given cycle. Too much dwell can contribute to a late spark (retardation); too little dwell contributes to a weak spark.

Excaliber · #6 (**permalink**) 11-16-2003, 06:30 PM

With a new user Dwell can be difficult to measure correctly, or interpret the results thereof.

In combination with the dwell reading exercise some common sense too. The point gap should indeed be close to or around 16 or the thickness of a match book cover is good.

If it's not "close to" that AND your getting what appears to be a good "dwell" reading, something aint right!

Advantage of dual points? Generally speaking more spark at the higher rpm ranges. As to the "stumble" or "hesitation" you speak of: Make sure the base timing is good (14 or so?), the fuel air idle screws are "dialed" in properly and your carb is giving you a nice "pump shot" of gas when you "step on it". Any vacuum leaks will throw off the idle air screw adjustment on the carb. That is critical to a smooth "take off".

Ernie

KobraKarl · #7 (**permalink**) 11-16-2003, 07:18 PM

With my dual point ,initial timing......18*. I tried every thing else ,it got rid of the stumble and dosnt ping..

Good luck,KK

Double Venom · #8 (**permalink**) 11-16-2003, 08:00 PM

Dwell meter! I've got one of them somewhere.
Fella, follow Cal and the EX. man here, it will run!
DV...I always used the thin part of a dime in a crisis. Ie, 12 miles from shore, burnt points and condensor-works great

Chiperb · #9 (**permalink**) 11-16-2003, 08:16 PM

THANK YOU Gentlemaen, as always.

Have just had this car a litler over a week now. Don't have time tomess with it til weekends.

Replacing the points has helped significantly. I have a new fiel pump, set of plugs, and new fule filter just in case.

Will do the fuel filte and plugs next.
Then next Sat plan to take it to a friends "Ford shop" to check over all timing, carb etc.

These points do have a hole in the distributor for an allen wrench to reach in and adjust the points while running. They even provide a feelers gauge, the allen wrench, and instrctions on how to adjust the points till the engine idles rought and then go in the opposite direction.

At keast I am going in the right direction and hav had a significnt improvement in performance so far. Thanks all! (won't be quiting my day job!) cn

Cal Metal · #10 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 10:00 AM

With external adjustment, this is as easy as pie. You can hook up the dwell meter to the negative side of the coil; ground the black lead, fire up the motor and take a reading. The great thing about the GM design is that you can adjust it while the car is running. Should take you all of 20-seconds this way.

Excaliber · #11 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 10:12 AM

That is an odd distributor. It does indeed sound like a GM style with the external adjustment feature. But it seems like the engine in question is a 390 Ford???

Some kind of special dist I would think........

Ernie

Cal Metal · #12 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 10:28 AM

Ernie:

I suspect it is an aftermarket Mallory or Accel that has been set up for a Ford but uses a GM adjustment mechanism for adjusting the dwell.

cobra427hp · #13 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 11:36 AM

Accel distributor uses GM points even in Ford & Mopar distibutors. Makes a snap for setting with external adjustment thru the access holes on the side of the housing, even has a disconnect plug for setting the points individually. No one has mentioned that the points are also offset with the secondary points opening just as the primary are starting to close, many people try to set the points with the primary on the lobe and screws up the secondary unless it is on the lobe when setting. A credit card is the perfect feeler gauge on the road as it is .016 thick. Where do you find books of matches these days?

ToyCollector · #14 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chiperb

... Thanks all! (won't be quiting my day job!) cn

Chip, hope it's not as a proofreader

.

Chiperb · #15 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 04:09 PM

I believe it may be an Accel distributor: That's what was on the bottom of the old worn points.

BTW this is on my small block 302 Daytona Coupe (not my 390)

TC: not a proof reader: have remote keyboard with a mind of it's own.

Thanks all cb

Chiperb · #16 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 04:15 PM

TC: whoops: meant dwell meter. Can't believe I misspelled both times! My wife wants to know where she can find a swell meter. Might make a nice Christmas present. I believe that mesures the angle of the dangle....

I thouht that the second points opening appeared starting slightly after the first: why wuld this be? extend the spark duaration? cb

Excaliber · #17 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 04:59 PM

Where DO you get a book of matches these days? Suddenly I feel as old as .......a dwell meter!

Ernie

KobraKarl · #18 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 07:32 PM

chiperb,

the stagger between the two sets of points allows the coil to charge higher and deliver a hotter spark..

KK

mr0077 · #19 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 07:45 PM

KK has it right...the coil discharges (generates a spark) when the points open, causing the magnetic field around it to collapse. It will discharge in a very short time, but it takes time (at 12V) to charge, so the idea is that both points must be open at the same time to open the circuit and allow the field to collapse. The first set opens while the second is still closed...then the second set also opens, the field collapses, the spark occurs, and almost immediately the first set of points closes and allows the coil to begin to saturate (charge). As RPM increases, the saturation time (time the points are closed) gets shorter. A dual-point distributor will give a longer saturation time in a conventional ignition system, thus will provide good/stronger spark at higher RPM than a single point set. That's all moot if the points only switch an electronic box like MSD or Jacobs...then the charging is controlled by the electronics...