Flat tappet cam life

[Excaliber]

I don't think the blame for oil leaks with synthetic lays with the engine builder. Some engines, like FE's, just don't lend themselves well to it's use. Not every application can be justified for synthetics, especially as it concerns break in period. I won't use it in my 650cc bike either, but many do. I remain skeptical of it from a cost/benefit analysis standpoint. The extra long miles between oil changes is a moot point due to the low miles my Cobra acquires on a yearly basis. I change oil based on TIME, not miles driven. Same for my Jeep, I don't drive it enough miles to justify the added expense and 'risk' of synthetic oil.

As to STP leaving a varnish, to that I also remain skeptical in a real world application such as a low mileage vehicle! Again cost/benefit analysis leads me to believe it's a good product, and worth the 'risk'. You would have to GREATLY over use the suggested amount to increase the viscocity rating an appreciable amount, all things should be done in moderation!

People ask me all the time what oil I recommend, by standard answer has always been: Select a product you like and one that is EASY to find most anywhere and STAY with it, then change oil on a regular basis. I think the worst thing you can do is 'mix and match' different oil brands and additives.

[4pipes]

Well, I spent a fair amount of time looking for a high ZDDP oil. I only found one company that openly cites the amount of ZDDP in their products.....Valvoline.

Their 20w50 VR-1 conventional oil looks like it fits the bill perfectly for an FE:

http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR...otor%20Oil.pdf

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I don't think the blame for oil leaks with synthetic lays with the engine builder. Some engines, like FE's, just don't lend themselves well to it's use. Not every application can be justified for synthetics, especially as it concerns break in period..................

I know of several CSX4000's that are using synthetic of one brand or another, all the owners are satisfied with the synthetic oil performance. I think the statement the FE engines are not well suited to it's use is unjustified.

As for using it for break in, after my engine was rebuilt, I didn't use it, I wanted my rings to seat before hell froze over. But many many manufacturers do put it new engines, again with great results, as they can control tolerances to the degree necessary for ring break-in not to be a factor.

Z. Ray

[4pipes]

Ray, synthetics are not recommended for FE's with flat tappet cams. It's a separate problem than ring sealing. Crane cams states on their website that synthetics may be too slippery for the lifters to rotate adequately in their guides (not enough friction between the lifter and the cam), and that if the cars are not started regularly, the oil will drain off the cam faster than conventional oils.

[427SnakeSC]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

Ray, synthetics are not recommended for FE's with flat tappet cams. It's a separate problem than ring sealing. Crane cams states on their website that synthetics may be too slippery for the lifters to rotate adequately in their guides (not enough friction between the lifter and the cam), and that if the cars are not started regularly, the oil will drain off the cam faster than conventional oils.

When I picked up my 427 from Keith Craft this summer, I asked him which oil I should use. His recommendation was "any good quality conventional oil." I think there have been other threads that Keith has been quoted as saying the same thing.

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

Ray, synthetics are not recommended for FE's with flat tappet cams. It's a separate problem than ring sealing. Crane cams states on their website that synthetics may be too slippery for the lifters to rotate adequately in their guides (not enough friction between the lifter and the cam), and that if the cars are not started regularly, the oil will drain off the cam faster than conventional oils.

Facts are in short supply in this discussion. Without comprehensive scientific research they always will be. What we are left with is direct real life experience, and hear-say. Neither of which is a broad proof of fact.

No cam manufacturer, no oil company, and no engine builder are going to admit fault. They will point elsewhere, to the other factors, as Crane does with "maybes" and other vague references. With flat tappet engines declining in numbers, the importance of this issue to be scientifically researched is also on the wane. We are left to determine what works on a case by case basis. There will never be a scientifically proven, definitive yes or no on the use of synthetic oil in flat tappet engines of differing designs. All one can do is observe what works for them, and make decisions accordingly.

I have experience with Ford small block, and the FE series of engines that have used synthetic oils in racing and street applications, over a period of years, without the problems others have encountered. So using a oil with superior wear characteristics make sense for me. If others have had a negative experience when using synthetic oils, they may decide the problem was causes by a lubrication issue, and go back to a conventional oil.

Cams and lifters have been failing for years before synthetic oil were introduced. So it seems unlikely that all current failures can be ascribed to the use of synthetic oil.

Z. Ray

[rdorman]

The new formulation of Rotella T 15W-40 that meets the CJ-4 spec contains 1210 ppm zinc, the max allowed for CJ-4. If I recall correctly, it used to be about 1400. 1210 is plenty.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...up=Lubrication

It is my understanding the companies like Crane and Comp Cams have changed hardening processes in respoonse to lower phospated ash/zddp.

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by rdorman

The new formulation of Rotella T 15W-40 that meets the CJ-4 spec contains 1210 ppm zinc, the max allowed for CJ-4. If I recall correctly, it used to be about 1400. 1210 is plenty.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...up=Lubrication

It is my understanding the companies like Crane and Comp Cams have changed hardening processes in respoonse to lower phospated ash/zddp.

that's good news from the cam manufacturers. Do you have a web page, or other source available for posting, so we can get the whole story?

thanks,

Z. Ray

[rdorman]

This may add to the controversy: http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/548e.pdf

I don't recall exactly where I read about the changes in the hardening process but in a recent issue (although it was about roller cams) they talk about their carburizing process on cams taking them to 58-62 'c' on the rockwell scale. Plus they have recently released the Mikronite surface finishing process.

I used to run Mobil 1 5W-30 in my flat tappet motor in the Cobra... until I wiped a lobe. Then I found out about zinc and have been using Rotella T 5W-40 synthetic but with the new formulations, that may change as well. It has worked great but I have a note into Shell to find out was the new formulation is.

Of course, anyone could just add a bottle of Crane Breakin Lube at oil changes which has a high concentration of ZDDP. My understanding is that the GM EOS has been discontinued.

There are a number of oils with .11% of zinc or more (1100 ppm). This is the level I have most heard as the lower threshold. Buy the one you like and be happy!