Weber Look A Like Fuel Injection!

[Garage10]

priobe
Do you use your car on the street ? How do you find your webbers in that application ? I read that webbers are too finicky for street use and that is why people go to systems like dynatek. But, I too think all these efi systems need to get in line with their pricing. It is waaaaaay too high compared to a carb/carbs/webbers.

[priobe]

garage10,

I agree with you on the pricing. Way toooooo expensive. You can hide the injectors, and fuel delivery but it still would not be Webers!

I use my Webers on the street and only on the street. My car has not yet seen the track.

Now from what I can tell it seems that the fuel drip happens with any carb setup. There are ways to slow it down but a definite cure is still in progress.

SO the down side to the Webers is that it will drip fuel in down the throat. This may not always be the case for every setup. I believe that it is happening to some people and they dont even know it. The pass it off as normal charaterisics of the Webers.

With the Dynatek system you will not have this problem. But you will pay more money as mentioned.

I have been giving it some thought to add injector boses to the manifold and adding a TPS sensor to turn the webers to EFI.

I have prefer the Haltech unit because it is realtime data management. Many system out there require you to turn off the engine, program, the start.

I am not sure how the Dynateck operates but if it is a self tuning unit, it would make a verty user friendly system. However, it may limit what you are capable of doing.

The Halteck system will provide SFI, batch and multipoint injection all built in to the unit. It will also control timing and accessories.

I figure by creating my own injection system it will cost me close to $2000 w/ a igition system. Remember I have the Webers and sensor already.

My point is these cars for me is a hobby and to have fun. But it does not justify $6000 to spend on a carb system I already have that will give me only 1 added feature that I will figure out a cure (dripping of fuel).

By the way, I just love when I pop my hood and people see I have the original Webers and I receive a comment like "that system is the hardest to tune and you will never get it right" I then start her up and ask it seems like it is properly tuned to me (with them agreeing).

[rokndad]

Originally Posted by Garage10

priobe
Do you use your car on the street ? How do you find your webbers in that application ? I read that webbers are too finicky for street use and that is why people go to systems like dynatek. But, I too think all these efi systems need to get in line with their pricing. It is waaaaaay too high compared to a carb/carbs/webbers.

As another user, my car has a pretty lumpy cam in it, and loped fairly well at idle with the 4bbl. Running previously at around 30 mph in 3rd gear (toploader 3:31 rear) it would lurch and jump around in town since it was between 1500 and 2200 rpm and didn't want to calmly run there. It ran really smoothly around 2800-3500 on the freeway, and my wife even fell asleep routinely on runs of 30 miles or more. You should see the people in adjacent cars chuckling at how someone could be asleep in that beast with all that noise. No earplugs either. I don't get it. She says it feels like a massage chair. Happy for her.

With the Webers, much easier to start either hot or cold, and runs really smoothly around town. No lurching or jumping around. A totally different sound and experience and so far, very reliable. I believe I have a more responsive car with the Webers and the enjoyment from others looking at it is priceless. This is what I have always thought a performance car should drive and sound like. I am very happy I made the challenging switch, and I know I am not done with the tuning and tweaking but I am going to get used to it as is for now. It was the right thing for me.

[D-CEL]

In theory, a carb or an EFI system that have equal flow and are properly tuned will make the same power. Flow is flow at WOT (wide open throttle). What we are really talking about is low and mid range power and drive-ability.
The main advantages of an EFI system over a carb, comes from its ability to precisely control the mixture. The result is better drive-ability, enhanced fuel economy and usually a flatter, wider torque curve under the WOT threshold.
But with these "PROS" come with some big "CONS" (no pun intended to the EFI mfgs) primarily system complexity and much higher costs. On top of that, you have to re-learn how to tune. The good part is that tuning becomes more scientific in practice, taking away some of the Juju associated with adjusting a carb.
Conversely, carbs are cheap(er) and simple(er) and for the most part can be made to produce sufficient power and acceptable drive-ability. While cabs work, to me they are a “compromise” system. I run them, but I don’t like them!! LOL

We all search for BIG HP in our mostly STREET DRIVEN toys.
But we must all remember that carbs need Vacuum to function. The wilder the engine combination becomes, the less happy most will be with the street manners of a carburetor.
EFI doesn’t need or care about vacuum and because the fuel is forced into the engine and the high level of control, it can be used to tame an otherwise….grumpy motor, another advantage.

While it is interesting to see head to head comparisons of the power, I think the true measure is how they start and drive on a cold morning in the mountains. How crisply it accelerates after idling for half an hour on the freeway when it’s 110 Deg. How controllable is the power delivery when you’re rolling into the throttle while exiting a hard right hand turn.

All things I don’t like about my very expensive, well tuned, super trick carb.

I’m putting EFI on my new motor, because it has flow potential that no carb can match thereby making the most possible HP and torque and with the right ECM (BIG STUFF or ACCEL DFI) will offer the best possible drive-ability. No compromises.
To me that is worth the additional cost and extra effort.

As I have said many times, there is no right way or wrong way, just opinion.


Jason

[rokndad]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

I’m putting EFI on my new motor, because it has flow potential that no carb can match thereby making the most possible HP and torque and with the right ECM (BIG STUFF or ACCEL DFI) will offer the best possible drive-ability. No compromises.
To me that is worth the additional cost and extra effort.

As I have said many times, there is no right way or wrong way, just opinion.


Jason

Wowzers!! Jason, what is that system? Very nice. We all want to hear how it runs when you get it going.

[D-CEL]

Rokndad,

That is the Kinsler Super Cobra Jet EFI manifold. It is the first SCJ specific “Stack” injection manifold. They did their homework when they designed it. it has a bunch of great features and options.

http://www.kinsler.com/NewProducts/PDF/SCJweb.pdf

LOL, yea it should be a hell of a thing….


Jason

[rokndad]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Rokndad,

That is the Kinsler Super Cobra Jet EFI manifold. It is the first SCJ specific “Stack” injection manifold. They did their homework when they designed it. it has a bunch of great features and options.

http://www.kinsler.com/NewProducts/PDF/SCJweb.pdf

LOL, yea it should be a hell of a thing….


Jason

Thanks for the link. They sort of look like updated versions of the old Hilborns....the workhorse of the drag strip from the 60's. Very nice. We want details when you get them going.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

In theory, a carb or an EFI system that have equal flow and are properly tuned will make the same power. Flow is flow at WOT (wide open throttle). What we are really talking about is low and mid range power and drive-ability.
The main advantages of an EFI system over a carb, comes from its ability to precisely control the mixture. The result is better drive-ability, enhanced fuel economy and usually a flatter, wider torque curve under the WOT threshold.
But with these "PROS" come with some big "CONS" (no pun intended to the EFI mfgs) primarily system complexity and much higher costs. On top of that, you have to re-learn how to tune. The good part is that tuning becomes more scientific in practice, taking away some of the Juju associated with adjusting a carb.
Conversely, carbs are cheap(er) and simple(er) and for the most part can be made to produce sufficient power and acceptable drive-ability. While cabs work, to me they are a “compromise” system. I run them, but I don’t like them!! LOL

We all search for BIG HP in our mostly STREET DRIVEN toys.
But we must all remember that carbs need Vacuum to function. The wilder the engine combination becomes, the less happy most will be with the street manners of a carburetor.
EFI doesn’t need or care about vacuum and because the fuel is forced into the engine and the high level of control, it can be used to tame an otherwise….grumpy motor, another advantage.

While it is interesting to see head to head comparisons of the power, I think the true measure is how they start and drive on a cold morning in the mountains. How crisply it accelerates after idling for half an hour on the freeway when it’s 110 Deg. How controllable is the power delivery when you’re rolling into the throttle while exiting a hard right hand turn.

All things I don’t like about my very expensive, well tuned, super trick carb.

I’m putting EFI on my new motor, because it has flow potential that no carb can match thereby making the most possible HP and torque and with the right ECM (BIG STUFF or ACCEL DFI) will offer the best possible drive-ability. No compromises.
To me that is worth the additional cost and extra effort.

As I have said many times, there is no right way or wrong way, just opinion.


Jason

Well that's kind of true, from what I have learned. I remember reading an article in Hot Boat years ago, testing Merc's then relatively new 454 packages, One a 454 HO and the other, a 454 EFI. Reportedly, both had the same short block and heads, the differnece being only the induction unit, a holley carb on a dual plane intake, and the other a tuned port, 8 runner FI intake. The testing revealed the Carbed motor out ran, made more power than the EFI version of the same engine, by like 2-3 mph in the same boat, by radar gun. What was explained is that a carburetor can be taylored to optimize fuel droplet size, whreas the EFI system sprays a mist like fuel, which vaporizes more easily, taking the place (space) of would have been additional air (O2) with the carbed engine, enabling the carbed engine to make slightly more power. Interesting.