Dashboard ideas

[yamoda]

Originally Posted by richsd

I am not trying to trample. I am just trying to understand where the interest lies in replicating a car but then not really trying to replicate it. This is just confusing to me and not meant to trample anyone.

I am on my 3rd build now, the first was a very close attempt at replicating the original (I sold it within a year of finishing it, and made a more than healthy profit because it was, for want of a better word, agricultural), the second was for a client who wanted a car close to the original, lookswise, but with more modern suspension, brakes, EFI etc. He loved it and I thought it was a very nice car.
The reason I chose the Cobra for my current build is that there is very little else available.

I want a car that;
Will weigh no more than 850 - 900kg,
Will take a small block Ford with CHI heads and associated trans and diff.
All round independent suspension with decent brakes (AP)
The capability of adding ABS and traction control.
Have acceptable looks and be sans roof.

I have driven a couple of original 427's and they were exciting in all senses of the word but I wouldnt have one today, the 2nd car I built was quicker, safer, handled and stopped better, rode better and was finished to a far higher standard than the originals.
The Cobra replica market today, as I see it, is split into 2 general groups.
The guys like yourself who cant or wont afford an original but want something as close as possible to it and the second group who like the Cobra but believe, with the benefit of 40 years of technology, it can be improved upon.
I am in the second group.
The biggest difference between the 2 groups, I believe, is that you wont hear guys like me trying to put guys from the first group down (If you want an original, build it or buy it and enjoy) But why do you always have to comment on builds like ByronRACE's or mine?
We arnt interested in the anal crap you guys spout, we love cars and dont really worry about statements like
"Yes this is the shame of it all. The public has been so mistakenly exposed to replicas nobody has a clue what an original looks like anymore."
The originals were masterpieces OF THEIR TIME, the1960's, its now 2007 and we have moved on in many ways.
Build YOUR car the way YOU want but dont dare to question anybody else on their decisions when building their car.

[ByronRACE]

OK, that's reasonable.

I'll just load up 15,000 lbs of crap and haul 2300 miles to Road America.

What color is the sky in your world?

I have a better idea, why don't you accept the fact that there is room in this world for everyones idea of a great car, and that a car that is hand crafted by the owner is more unique and meaningful to many people than anything a wallet can buy.

[richsd]

Well it is pretty cloudy and rainy here today so the color of the sky is pretty gray. Hopefully it will clear up by the 17th. I didn't think you would be up for the challenge but I at least thought it would be sporting to offer.

[TButtrick]

[ByronRACE]

I'm not up for the challenge? More like, I'm not up for the 5000 mile round trip journey to accomplish something that means very little to me.

Why don't you spend a week of your life driving out here instead?

Or, are you "not up for the challenge"?

[richsd]

Sure I would love to make it out to CA and would definitely be up for that. I was just suggesting the Road America event since it is a Shelby event and also a track with long straights as you requested. There are actually quite a few capable Nobles in California so maybe you will have the opportunity to try to catch one at some point.

[Power Surge]

Why use the Cobra body for a Hot Rod? It's the same answer as why use a 57 Chevy, 69 Mustang, 32 Roadster, or anyone other car ever built... personal taste. Many people like the look of the Cobra, but have no desire for it to be as originally built. That's what "hot rodding" is. Taking a car and modifying it to suit your needs and likes.

I like my CSX because I like originality. But I would also love to have a fully built, turbo modular Ford powered, 6 speed, modern suspension mega hot rod Cobra.

It all comes down to what you like. The best thing about having a Cobra is that it's like going to Burger King.... you can have it YOUR way.

I have an appreciation for ALL types of Cobra builds. And while my current personal preference revolves around originality, I still love to see heavily hot rodded Cobras too.

[ByronRACE]

I run with Green Flag, the Nor Cal Shelby Club, and others...Infinion, Thunder Hill, Laguna, Buttonwillow. I try to make a few events every year. I'll keep my eyes open for a Noble; I've never seen one at any of the area tracks...where do they run? If you make it out this way let me know.

The next event I plan to attend is this:

http://www.norcal-saac.org/mn/mnmain.htm

[richsd]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I like my CSX because I like originality. But I would also love to have a fully built, turbo modular Ford powered, 6 speed, modern suspension mega hot rod Cobra.

It all comes down to what you like. The best thing about having a Cobra is that it's like going to Burger King.... you can have it YOUR way.

I have an appreciation for ALL types of Cobra builds. And while my current personal preference revolves around originality, I still love to see heavily hot rodded Cobras too.

I certainly respect your opinion on this Sal. Those who like these type of cars are certainly welcome to that opinion. I am glad they have found a car that they enjoy as that is what the car hobby is all about. However I also am entiled to an opinion without folks telling me that I am trying to trample their vision. The bottom line fact is that the large number of hot rods built with a Cobra shaped body and even larger number of "Cobra replicas" built with new age stuff has clearly skewed the perception of what an original Cobra is. This is not an opinion, it is fact. We are all entitled to our opinion as we consider this fact. Many say that they love all the different versions which is a fine opinion to have. I say that I don't and feel I am also entitled to express this opinion without everyone getting all bunched up that I am trashing their cars.

[SKINNEDR]

Why are you trashing my BDR... smile I'm only kidding.
I would love to see you guys get together on the track and once and for all see who is who. I'm convince that at the end of the day, you both will shake hands and probably will be the best of friends.
I admire the way you guys are dealing with this without crossing the line..
This would have been a good example for kids that are growing up today, to learn how to deal with difference of opinion without loosing control of your emotions.
Both of you are pationate about your opinion, but would not extend beyond the boundries.. that is great guys..
Again my Hats off to both of you.
This is good stuff, true men at work...
Dex...

[ByronRACE]

Thank god, we're back on topic!

I agree completely...modernized Cobra-like cars have skewed the perception of what an original Shelby Cobra looked like. Where we differ, is that I believe the changes are in the spirit of the Cobra, and for the better. The original cars are great, and from a historical perspective I think preserving some of them is a good idea.

If you ask me, this kind of creativity is a tribute to the kind of thinking that spawned the Cobra in the first place. If you think we're bastardizing the Cobra, then I say Shelby bastardized the Ace. Shelby's creativity has skewed the perception of the original AC Ace just a little don't you think? Or, is the Ace not worthy of your preservation stance?

[richsd]

Very well said. I can accept this position and try to incorporate in my thinking. Yes it can be said that Shelby did bastardize the orignal Ace although the correlation is a little off given that what Shelby did was to bring together multiple entities to create something new that was built as a semi production car and focused on a purpose as relates to serious racing. This is a little different than hot rodding something on an individual basis but I understand the coorelation on the spirit of what he did.

[ItBites]

Richsd

I am still waiting to see actual timeslips on the performance of your (not a "representatvie" noble) nobles acceleration performance. Put-up or shut-up. Show me the data.

[richsd]

Originally Posted by ItBites

Richsd

I am still waiting to see actual timeslips on the performance of your (not a "representatvie" noble) nobles acceleration performance. Put-up or shut-up. Show me the data.

Well I am really not sure what you mean by timeslips. Performance on a road track is measured in lap time. I have plenty of GPS data logged laps at various tracks. I don't get timeslips handed to me so since I don't know what you mean I can't provide it. In a couple weeks I will run at Road America and all lap times will be posted on the Shelby website. You will be able to view those results when posted.

[ByronRACE]

Here's some data from my bastardized dashboard PC...with a non-optimized tune and the 80/30 cog and running richer than 10:1 AFR on California 91 octane pump gas. This is essentially 1/4 mile data, but wasn't performed on a real track so there is no time slip. In any event, the data should speak volumes about what it is capable of.

You can clearly see the 4 forward gears, and the run region.

4th gear is 1:1, tire diameter is 27", rear gear is 3.50. Better than 140mph in 1/4 mile on old R1 road race tires, at about 3200lbs with driver...and not optimized yet. As you can see by the TPS data, the run lasted just under 10 seconds. I shut off a hair past the 1/4mi marker, which means the car is already in the 9's and hasn't been to a drag track yet.

Injectors are 160lb/hr...that will probably change. I'm only using half of that flow rate. That's why the duty cycle is so small.

Hopefully I can get the 390 profile rubber on the back of it and improve traction. It was squirmy/loose the entire run.

http://www.racesystems.com/sneeciv/testrun13.zip

Anyway, fun to look at.

[ByronRACE]

Someone just emailed me and told me my math was wrong.

7033rpm in 4th gear, with a 3.50 rear gear yields 2009rpm at the rear tires.
If the tire diameter is 27", that's a 7ft circumference.
2009rpm * 7 = 14063 ft per minute or 159.8 MPH.
Hmmm, wonder if my tire diameter number is wrong.
But even if it was 26", that's 2009*6.8 = 13661 ft/min or 155mph.

My guess is 140 is what the g-tech said...and the difference is tire slip.

In any event, she's zippy.

[khansmith]

To really get back onto topic...regarding dashboard ideas (vs. the merits of originality vs cobras as platforms for modern art). I thought this was an interesting topic and did a search on google. Thought this dash was cool. Also uses a different type of steering wheel (probably easier to get out of car with flat bottom).

[ItBites]

richsd,

Your claim was that your noble is a 3 or sub 3 second 0-60 car. Just looking for real data to back up your statement. Very few cars are so capable in reality, but many are bench-raced to those times.

[richsd]

Edmunds tested a stock Noble M400 0-60 at 3.2 seconds. I have not run my car in a formally measured 0-60 test but with more than 200 HP and ft lbs torque over stock I am assuming I would have a couple of tenths over a stock car. Others with improved power over stock have run at 2.9 0-60. I do have a G-Tech so I can do some runs to see where it is at. I am usually doing road track driving and not really too interested in only straight line 0-60 or 1/4 mile runs. Although the Noble is lightning quick 0-60 it is really not a stat that means much to me. How fast it gets out of a corner back up to speed on the straight is really the acceleration that makes a difference on the track.

[ItBites]

richsd,

It was your claim that your car does a 3 or sub 3 sec 0-60. I appreciate that you now admit you are only assuming. If it were me, I wouldn't make claims on assumptions, but thats me...

It does seem your car should be very fast.