ZL-1 lives again

[Tom Kirkham]

http://wardsauto.com/ar/block_revived_scrap/

[undy]

I'll rather have Katech's new 500ci LS based small block crate motor.. 600/600 in epa emissions trim.. I'd also rather have their 572/630 tall deck crate motor. I really wonder how much similarity it really has to the original ZL1??

Dave

[jay bentley]

The scrapyard is located behind the storage building that Carroll Shelby left the 50 or so Cobra chassis that were found in the early 90's.

[jmarsey]

aka Rat Motor

[427SnakeSC]

Not 100% sure of this, but wasn't it the L88 that was advertised as 430 hp and the tri power was 435 hp. I think I remember the L88 was a $1000. option the the 435 hp tri power was much less $. That is why so few Corvettes came with the L88. I think I remember the ZL1 being rated at 550 hp. Again, not 100% sure of these numbers, but I could do some digging in my books!

Just looked up the '69 L88 and it was advertised as 430 hp. I have an old Muscle car mag, where they run the ultimate shootout between a '66 427 Cobra and a '69 L88 Corvette. Interesting read!

[JeepSnake]

427SnakeSC - I believe you are correct on the L88 rating. It was not the top horsepower rating in the big-block lineup so as to be more "discrete." In other words, they only wanted to sell the real firebreather to knowledgeable drivers (racers) who knew how to handle the power. That's what I've read several times, anyway. The 550 hp is what the L88 was rumored to actually produce. I don't believe that Chevrolet ever actually rated a production engine higher than the 450 hp LS-6 454.

Having been into Chevrolets for a long time before discovering Cobras, my take on reading the article is really: "So what?" There are plenty of aftermarket aluminum Rats, and the GM Performance Parts catalog is full of aluminum big blocks. The 2005 catalog even touted a "ZL-1" package with fuel injection for around $21k, if I remember right. So why get excited about a block that's going to be cast on what they basically tell you is worn out & repaired tooling?

[427 S/O]

AKA..Kroger Motor.

[Badsnake427]

Thanks JeepSnake, I wasn't really sure about those HP ratings. I dug up that old issue of Musclecar and it has the specs on the L88 and I think I remember reading a spec book on Corvettes (when I was a Chevy man too) which posted the same hp for the L88. I really can't recall seeing a hp rating for a ZL1, but I do remember seeing 550 being the correct hp, for as you say the L88. Now that you mention it, I do remember the 450 (460 hp, 1970 Corvette) LS6 being the most the most hp advertised. Good Stuff!

[marcocsx3121]

The L88 was a total package option, not just an engine. L88 cars could not be equipped with a radio, heater, or air conditioner, and came with a unique hood as well as as a bunch of performance-oriented suspension tweaks. I don't have access to the exact number, but I recall that the premium was a good bit more than $1k.

In today's collector market, correct L88s are worth 3-4 times what a pristine 427/435 'Vette will bring.

[Anthony]

Like what marco said. I think chevy built about 30 L88's in '67, and about 120 each in '68 and '69. They had 12:1 compression, a bigger cam than the 427/435 cars, and with headers, put out about 550+ HP, but rated at 430, as I read, so the "rich" kids wouldn't check off the option unlike the 435HP engine which was more streetable. The ZL1 was actually like a 69 L88 but with the aluminum block. L88's had I think different heads through its evolution, initially closed chamber, then open chamber, and I think the cam got more radical as well, culminating in the late L88 / ZL1 specs.

Basically a factory race engine, kind of like the new Z06.

The L89 was basically a 435HP motor ( ? L72) but with aluminum heads, same cam and other engine parts.

[mhacars]

The 454 LS-7 had the highest horsepower rating at 465.

[jwd]

Originally Posted by mhacars

The 454 LS-7 had the highest horsepower rating at 465.

It was never was installed in a production car. Over the parts counter only. The new small block LS-7 has 505HP. Wait till the next year or so. They are talking about putting a supercharger on it, 650HP.

[TerrysSPF]

I remember reading about the "ZL-1 crate engines" several years ago (early 2002 I think). Back in Dec 2005 Hot Rod built a Camaro using one of the new 69 Camaro bodies being released by a company called Dynacorn (I think Year One offers them), and they put one of the ZL-1 crate engines in it. Back then they were saying only 200 were going to be built, and oh by the way, for some reason they weren't 427 cubic inches - they were 454. GM part number was: PN12370850 and they were about 20 grand to purchase.

I owned a L-89 Vette back in the late 70's. -No where near as radical as the L-88, and marco was right, the L-88 was a lot more than a $1000.00 option. The L-88 Vette really wasn't meant to be driven on the street - cam was WAAAY too radical. No air, no radio, no creature comforts, and a cool cowl induction hood (which I bought and had on my L-89 car). I also owned a LS-6 Chevelle in the 80's. The LS-6 was a monster of an engine which could easily be made to produce even more power. The LS-7 was a hoped up LS-6 but was never put into a production car (as jwd stated above).
The alum ZL-1's were basically L-88's with an alum block. 69 COPO Camaros had them and the cost of the engine option was almost as much as the cost of the entire car. These are million dollars cars today, and the ZL-1 Vettes fetch even more (in fact, I think only 1 out of the 2 made exhist today).

Also, just for the record, no Corvettes were ever sold to the public with LS-6's (or LS-7's). Chevelles were the high HP cars in the Chevy lineup in 1970 - not the Vette.
-What a advertising bust Chevy went through that year!

[mr0077]

ZL1's also had a more radical camshaft than the L88 and different heads, valves and springs.
My 1968 L89 had manual EVERYTHING and no A/C, but had an AM/FM radio and power windows!
Terry, what was the redline on yours? If I recall mine had a 7500 RPM redline on an 8000 RPM tach.

[mhacars]

I agree with the commentary that the LS-7 was never availabel in a production vehicle as it was deleted from the Corvette after the manuals and marketing materials were released to the public. Currently, in my 1970 Nova SS I have a 454 LS-7, which I purchased new in the crate from GM in the early 90"s. At that time, they were being phased out as the Mark V crate motors were being intoduced. It is essentially a ZL-1 with more cubic inches and made out of cast iron. My Nova is relatively quick.

[TerrysSPF]

mr007: I want to say the redline started at 6500 on a 8000rpm tach. Not positive though.........perhaps I can find some pics of my dash somewhere. If I remember right, the redline started out in yellow and then went to red around 7000 or so.
The car was a heck of a runner, althought I never cared for the 3X2 set up. I eventually took them off and went with a single 850. Ran much better with the single four, IMO. I didn't have the funny "bird catcher" air cleaner that the L-88's came with, but my chrome MOROSO air cleaner fit nicely under the L-88 hood. When I sold the car I gave the new owner the 3X2 intake and the carbs, but I still have the triangle shaped air cleaner to this day.

[What'saCobra?]

Removing the 3X2bbl carbs/intake was the thing to do. The secondaries on the 3X2bbl were vacuume and did not open reliably. They were wont to open in a corner when a bump was struck and the hp soared from perhaps 250 to 400 or so... not a nice event on a stone-wall lined country road in NH.

Not that the old Holley's were THAT good (compared to today's highQ sensor systems that flow a correct F/A Ratio at WOT & low RPM), but they were better than the 3X2.

Had a nice Silver 435/427 '67 Coupe, with side-pipes in 1967. Very dicy at high speed, too much front end lift. Too loud an interior resonance from the pipes, unless you opened both windows about an inch or more.

But, plenty fast and great tranny/syncros. Still got the side window paperwork somewhere.

[427SnakeSC]

Originally Posted by marcocsx3121

The L88 was a total package option, not just an engine. L88 cars could not be equipped with a radio, heater, or air conditioner, and came with a unique hood as well as as a bunch of performance-oriented suspension tweaks. I don't have access to the exact number, but I recall that the premium was a good bit more than $1k.

In today's collector market, correct L88s are worth 3-4 times what a pristine 427/435 'Vette will bring.

According to the option list for 1967 Corvette, printed in Corvette, Sports Car of America, the L88 option was $947.90 and the L89 option (aluminum heads for the L71) was $368.65. The L71 option was $437.10. I remember reading that people who went in to order a BB Corvette, thought it was a no brainer to order the L71 (435 hp) for $437.10, over the L88 (430 hp) for the $947.90. The reasoning was, why pay more for less hp? If only they had known!

[ffindling]

Originally Posted by 427SnakeSC

Not 100% sure of this, but wasn't it the L88 that was advertised as 430 hp and the tri power was 435 hp. I think I remember the L88 was a $1000. option the the 435 hp tri power was much less $. That is why so few Corvettes came with the L88. I think I remember the ZL1 being rated at 550 hp. Again, not 100% sure of these numbers, but I could do some digging in my books!

Just looked up the '69 L88 and it was advertised as 430 hp. I have an old Muscle car mag, where they run the ultimate shootout between a '66 427 Cobra and a '69 L88 Corvette. Interesting read!

The tri-power 435 hp engine was the L71 which the same engine as the
L72 save for the manifold and carb setup. These were all cast iron engines
with 11:1 compression. The L88 had closed chamber aluminum heads with 12.5:1 compression through most of its production life, in latter half of
1969, they switched to an open chamber head with 12:1 compression.
The L89 was basically an L71 with aluminum heads and 11:1 compression
and had the same hp rating as its all cast-iron sibling.

....Fred

[Woodz428]

I just reread the 1969 Hot Rod Engine article on the original, as well as perusing the specs and photos in it. The Ward's pics show an updated head porting, I would guess much inside is not the same as the original either. It kind of sounds like a way to make some "legal" blocks for some racing classes. Just as the new "Boss" engine has little in common with it's namesake, this one probably has little in common with the original. But the correct casting number on that block could be invaluable to some racers.