Turkey Pan ? - Page 2

767Jockey · #21 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 11:26 AM

Geez, was I way off. I always thought that the turkey pan was sandwiched between the carb and the manifold, much like a plenum spacer would be.

patrickt · #22 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Geez, was I way off. I always thought that the turkey pan was sandwiched between the carb and the manifold, much like a plenum spacer would be.

A normal one is; my custom fabricated two-piece Turkey Pan was specifically designed to be easily removable.

767Jockey · #23 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 11:37 AM

Ah, so I wasn't THAT far off

Any chance you could post a shot of the carb with the pan off to get a good look at the stationary part that stays on the engine, and the underside of the pan to see how it's fabricated and mounted? Easily removable sounds like a great idea. Thanks.

Tahoe Jim · #24 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 11:39 AM

How used? Is yours polished or scotch brite finish? Jim 775 721-3534

Eric Page · #25 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 11:39 AM

Deleted...

patrickt · #26 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Ah, so I wasn't THAT far off

Any chance you could post a shot of the carb with the pan off to get a good look at the stationary part that stays on the engine, and the underside of the pan to see how it's fabricated and mounted? Easily removable sounds like a great idea. Thanks.

Take a look at the three shots I posted on the first page of this thread.

Randy Rosenberg · #27 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 11:50 AM

Absolutely brilliant design! Props to Bob P!!!

767Jockey · #28 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 02:09 PM

I guess it would help if I looked at page 1 before I ask a question, huh?

Thanks - looks like a great idea.
Just thinking out loud here - what if instead of the springs on the outside, you made the stationary plate extend almost out to the bottom edges of the removable turkey pan, then put a Dzus fastener in each corner of the inside of the pan? You wouldn't see the fasteners unless you looked right down into the pan, wouldn't have the springs showing, and it would be easy on and off. Am I all wet here?

patrickt · #29 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Just thinking out loud here - what if instead of the springs on the outside, you made the stationary plate extend almost out to the bottom edges of the removable turkey pan, then put a Dzus fastener in each corner of the inside of the pan? You wouldn't see the fasteners unless you looked right down into the pan, wouldn't have the springs showing, and it would be easy on and off.

Sounds like a plan to me. I had forwarded to Bob some pictures of a removable pan that I had found over on the CSX forum that was kind of like that, but used plain old screws. Bob went in his own direction. My only instructions to him where to fabricate the pan as if he was making it for his own personal car. Other than that, I just let him run with it....

patrickt · #30 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 07:38 AM

There's not a whole lot of clearance inside the pan. Here's a shot looking down, sans air cleaner, to help you decide.

TerrysSPF · #31 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 10:17 AM

This pan is a great idea. I like Rick's initial thought though, about the locating pins. Instead of having a few pins there strictly for alignment purposes, what if they were threaded? That way you could bolt the pan down from the inside and eliminate the springs.
It may take a little more time to remove, but still not as long as it takes to remove a regular turkey pan.

-Someone get on this idea and offer it up for sale!

patrickt · #32 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerrysSPF

Someone get on this idea and offer it up for sale!

Sounds good to me. But be advised, Bob P.'s hourly rate is on a par with Jamo's.

olddog · #33 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 02:38 PM

At the risk of being accussed of hi-jackig this thread, I have a question or two. These are the first detailed pictures I have seen of the turkey pan.

How does the pan seal up to the hood scoop, if at all? A picture of this would be most appreciated. I am assuming if it does seal up to the hood that it must be a thick flexable material to allow motor movement.

I am a little surprised that the pan is open for throttle linkage and such. I assumed it was sealed to provide some ram air pressure affect, but apparently it was only to supply cool air to the carb.

patrickt · #34 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olddog

How does the pan seal up to the hood scoop, if at all?

It does not seal against the hood; some modified Turkey Pans have a flexible foamy type cushion at the top to seal it off for a "ram air" effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olddog

I am a little surprised that the pan is open for throttle linkage and such. I assumed it was sealed to provide some ram air pressure affect, but apparently it was only to supply cool air to the carb.

The Turkey Pan provides little, if any, performance increase. More likely it lessens horsepower but I've haven't put mine on the dyno and checked it with the pan on and off. That's a good project for the Spring. Aside from looking cool, the Turkey Pan might help prevent gas percolating in the carb after you've parked. Truth be told, that's probably the only benefit to having one.

olddog · #35 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

The Turkey Pan provides little, if any, performance increase. More likely it lessens horsepower.

I have seen this thought multiple times on this web site, but I don't understand why.

The density of air is a factor of the absolute temp of the air. The hotter the air, the more a given quantity of air will expand. Hence the hot air ballon will rise.

If the under the hood air temp is 140 F (or 333 Kelvin) and the ambient air temp is 80 F (or 299.7 Kelvin), then the ambient air is 333/299.7= 111.1% the density of the under hood air. Therefore you should get 11.1% more air into your engine and correspondingly make 11.1% more hp. That will take a 450 hp engine to 500 hp. That is no small gain for some simple air ducting.

OBTW - thanks for the other information. I didn't mean to be disrespectful to the person answering my questions. I think you will be impressed with your dyno results if there is a fan to simulate going down the road.

patrickt · #36 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olddog

I have seen this thought multiple times on this web site, but I don't understand why.

One reason is that for the hood scoop to really work well you'd have to flip it around the other way -- remember the Chevelles that had the little trap door on the hood scoop that faced the driver?

olddog · #37 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 03:43 PM

Yes ,the thought is that the reverse scoop gets a high pressure air from the windshield forming a dam. And the higher pressure to the manifold would be like a tiny blower. Even a forward scoop creats a ram air affect, if all is sealed up. Again this affect is to increase hp by increasing air pressure in the manifold. However air temp alone (without the pressure increase) will increase hp.

767Jockey · #38 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 04:05 PM

I was always of the impression that purpose of the Turkey Pan wasn't to necessarily build a ram air effect, but rather to isolate the carb from the heat of the engine compartment and essentially build it it's own chamber to feed it cooler denser outside air.

patrickt · #39 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 04:11 PM

On the next "dyno day" of the Capital Area Cobra Club I'll put mine on the dyno and run it with both the pan on and the pan off and see what the results turn out to be, both with a big fan on the front of the scoop and without. I did a quick search of the forum and didn't find a definitive thread where somebody dyno'd their engine, pulled the pan, and then re-dyno'd. Probably because it's such a nuisance to pull the pan if it's not a two-piece. All the threads quote the dogma that the pan tends to hurt more than it helps, but none cite any real tests or evidence, just the usual "all the engine builders say that blah, blah...."

767Jockey · #40 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

On the next "dyno day" of the Capital Area Cobra Club I'll put mine on the dyno and run it with both the pan on and the pan off and see what the results turn out to be, both with a big fan on the front of the scoop and without. I did a quick search of the forum and didn't find a definitive thread where somebody dyno'd their engine, pulled the pan, and then re-dyno'd. Probably because it's such a nuisance to pull the pan if it's not a two-piece. All the threads quote the dogma that the pan tends to hurt more than it helps, but none cite any real tests or evidence, just the usual "all the engine builders say that blah, blah...."

I would think that you'd have to find a way to provide a temp differential to see the true worth pf the pan. There will likely be a drop in power with the pan on vs. off - the question is does the cool air it alleges to provide overcome the loss in power due to theoretical restricted flow? I don''t know how one would test for that. A fen on the nose of the car in an ambient room isn't likely to provide the the temperature differential between the underhood area and the inside of the pan that a car under power on the open road would probably have.