Roush Crate Engines

[Chris L]

Would be interested in the opinions of any people running some Roush or Keith Craft engines in their Cobra's. Particularly those (Roush) with the "trumpet" efi set up.
The 402 has my interest mostly, but the 342/353 would also do the trick nicely. I have also looked at Keith Craft and their 331 with a fuel injected set up rating around 475 bhp. I believe KCR use 'Mass flo' with their injection set ups.
I have e-mailed Roush but have not been afforded a reply as yet.

Things such as the ability to tune and setting up the engines, driveability,cost versus value and reliability are important. Big HP is not the the over all concern.....either side of 500 is fine and plenty !!

Thanks in advance

Chris L
Australia

[richardferguson]

I think you'd have trouble registering a Roush or a Craft motor in Australia.
Richard

[madmaxx]

Excellent choice with the Roush, they are the standard in which all others are compared in my opinion. YOu need the Roush 427 SR/TW. The 402R torque curve hit its sweet spot at about 4K. Roush makes a 402SR/TW but you drop below 500 hp but it has a better redlight to redlight torque curve starting at 2000RPM. Get the 427SR/TW and you get a freight train torque curve and over the magic 500hp number. The 427 is only 2K more, and you take full advantage of the Dart block. Study the torque curves on the roush sight, you want a flat predictable torque curve, not an exponential curve. I drove 402R and in all honesty it did not feel faster than my 302 in first and second now hit third an holy cow!!! I drove a 427sr/tw, I had to change my pants.

[RACER X #99]

If your going to spend the big bucks for a crate engine make sure it has a World Products or Dart block. Lots of good builders out there but only two good blocks.

[Chuckster]

Good to know and great info. I am looking hard at putting the 402R in my BDR that will go on order early next year. Seems to me by perusing cobra country that cars KC and Roush engines hold their value much better than the rest.

[Got the Bug]

Chuckstr - Take a serious look at the 402SR/TW. It's well mannered for street driving, but will give you everything you want in terms of HP and Torque when you want to jump on it.

[Chris L]

Thanks fella's for the info thus far.........

Richard F, the car is allready registered .

Cheers
Chris L

[john chesnut]

World products might make a good block but my new 427 engine from them was a piece of crap. And Bill Mitchell's customer service was too.
I am not an engine builder so I paid big bucks to get a tunkey aluminum head engine from Mitchell. It smoked heavily from the start, fouling plugs with in a 100 miles. I was told by Mitchell that the rings needed to seat. I ran the car and the smoking did not stop. His customer service told me that I may have the wrong valve seals. Sure enough every cheap umbrella seal had been pulled off. I installed new seals but this did not cure the problem.
I spent alot of time trying to get them to take care of the problem. I had even sent them a video of the smoking from the first few days of it running. I had changed the oil pan to a road race pan and they refused to honor the "Warranty" because of this. They claim a notice was sent with the engine informing that any changes would void the warranty. IT was not!
I finally broke down and tore the engine down. EVERY ring was gapped to 58 thousand or MORE! I informed Bill directly of this and he still wouldn't take care of the problem. Not even pay for the parts! I told Bill that at every opportunity I would tell people of his lousy engines and service. $9000 for that.

[richardferguson]

Originally Posted by Chris L

Thanks fella's for the info thus far.........

Richard F, the car is allready registered .

Cheers
Chris L

Well, that's different then Chris
Go the Roush 402
Richard

[Clois Harlan]

John I am glad to hear this because a Cobra manufacturer in the Midwest is working on a deal with a major intl sponsor and was looking at buying up to 60 engines from a mfg. They are one of the builders being considered. Customer service is absolutely key. Myself and a couple others were brought in for advise.

Very interesting!


Clois

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by john chesnut

World products might make a good block but my new 427 engine from them was a piece of crap. And Bill Mitchell's customer service was too.
I am not an engine builder so I paid big bucks to get a tunkey aluminum head engine from Mitchell. It smoked heavily from the start, fouling plugs with in a 100 miles. I was told by Mitchell that the rings needed to seat. I ran the car and the smoking did not stop. His customer service told me that I may have the wrong valve seals. Sure enough every cheap umbrella seal had been pulled off. I installed new seals but this did not cure the problem.
I spent alot of time trying to get them to take care of the problem. I had even sent them a video of the smoking from the first few days of it running. I had changed the oil pan to a road race pan and they refused to honor the "Warranty" because of this. They claim a notice was sent with the engine informing that any changes would void the warranty. IT was not!
I finally broke down and tore the engine down. EVERY ring was gapped to 58 thousand or MORE! I informed Bill directly of this and he still wouldn't take care of the problem. Not even pay for the parts! I told Bill that at every opportunity I would tell people of his lousy engines and service. $9000 for that.

It never ceases to amaze me that in todays world with the internet and such that people/companies will continue to provide poor products and service. It's so easy to let others know about your problems, and this costs them many times what it would have cost them to do it right.

Just look at what Clois said. Sixty engines would be in the range of $500,000.00+ of income for a company. Also the profit margin tends to be a little larger on this type of deal due to the discount of buying large quanties of parts all at one time and you can set up a small assembly line.

The last thing I do want to say, is that there are always two sides of a story. Not saying what you have said is untrue. It's just that I personally do not form an opinion until I have more information.

However I'm sorry you had to go through what you did. That sucks.

[RACER X #99]

Originally Posted by john chesnut

World products might make a good block but my new 427 engine from them was a piece of crap. And Bill Mitchell's customer service was too.
I am not an engine builder so I paid big bucks to get a tunkey aluminum head engine from Mitchell. It smoked heavily from the start, fouling plugs with in a 100 miles. I was told by Mitchell that the rings needed to seat. I ran the car and the smoking did not stop. His customer service told me that I may have the wrong valve seals. Sure enough every cheap umbrella seal had been pulled off. I installed new seals but this did not cure the problem.
I spent alot of time trying to get them to take care of the problem. I had even sent them a video of the smoking from the first few days of it running. I had changed the oil pan to a road race pan and they refused to honor the "Warranty" because of this. They claim a notice was sent with the engine informing that any changes would void the warranty. IT was not!
I finally broke down and tore the engine down. EVERY ring was gapped to 58 thousand or MORE! I informed Bill directly of this and he still wouldn't take care of the problem. Not even pay for the parts! I told Bill that at every opportunity I would tell people of his lousy engines and service. $9000 for that.

This post certainly does not look good for World products, I would like to see a reply from Man O War.

RD

[madmaxx]

John, All I can say is OUCH!!!!

Roush 402=$12K
Roush 427=$14K
When asked "does it have a 427" = Priceless, LOL!!! In all honesty Roush customer service indicated 75% of crate engines he sold for Cobras was the 427. I asked how can that be, when viewing cobra country etc, all I see is 402, his response was, people do not sell the 427 and when they do they sell quickly.

[john chesnut]

I believe customer service and personal integrity are the keys to success in business. I kept the rings from the engine so any one is free to examine them.
I had a customer buy one of my Dragons. He lived 4 hours from me. He called one day all upset because his engine didn't fit the chassis. He said that one motor mount was welded on several inches from the proper location.
The next day I took a trailer and went to meet him. I discovered that his block had two different mount locations. I put the mount in the proper location and the motor dropped in. However, since the guy had bought his kit I had up dated the chassis and improved the suspension geometry. I took the frame home, upgraded it and returned it, all free of charge. My customer, Lenny, has become a friend and a strong supporter of my cars.
I treat customers in all of my businesses the way I would like to be treated. The almighty buck is not the bottom line.

[thorconstr]

That trumpet EFI setup happens to be TWM, which by coincidence is a group purchase deal right now. TWM Group purchase!. Great Deal!!

[trs900]

John may I ask... what exactly is a Dragon ?? I assume it's a car or Go-kart.. just curious

[thorconstr]

John, As you've demonstrated, "service is everything". One unsatisfied customer will nullify 1000 satified ones, and a happy customer is the cheapest advertising you can buy! I hope your business continues to grow, keep up good work!

[tool time George]

Hi john Chestnut thanks for the info on that builder.I certainly won't even request a quote from them now.
Chris L it took me just over 2 weeks to hear back from Roush,A phone call took 2 minutes and they were very helpful.
IMHO the 427sr is really the best way to go.other than crapping your drawers when you turn it over. they have diapers that fit us for that purpose.
It greatly enhances the resale value.plus it really has 427 pubes (lol) meant that.lol
But the 427sr carbed is 14k, the 427ir w/stack efi is like 25k.
thats in the 427 aluminum fe range. How high is the sky?
does your wallet make your ass look fat?

[Chuckster]

Bug, thanks for the 402TW suggestion. I will inquire further.

Maxx, great info on the 427 option. Makes complete sense in that I also rarely see the 427 cars up for sale. An extra $2K when spending $50K plus isn't a whole lot when it comes down to it. Shhhh....just don't tell my wife.

hmmmm....now both of you have done it, you got my wheels turning again on the perfect engine choice. Ahhh....yess.....I wish I had more problems like these

[mpanten]

Im running a Keith Craft aluminum block stroked to 427. No complaints at all