Shelby interview in Road & Track

[Steve Cassani]

"His legacy will be that he was more of a snake than his car's namesake."

Well said.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Now I do agree that the old snake oil salesman is quite the revisionist (just look at his BS tirade about the Coupes), however in the above quote he does say "Mine and Fords" he didn't even insinuate that he or Ford were NPOs just that it was HIS. He did nail SAAC on that one though. And I for one still don't see why anyone would want to support Kopec and Eber in a financial sense. A chartered NPO trustee run organization would be just as good (maybe better) at preserving a legacy; but the time for that went bye, bye when SAAC went for profit. What I still see is that both sides are so full of BS that it's collecting on the whole hobby. And it stinks.

Steve

Your point is true, however don't "bus-roll" Rick and Ken just because they are making profit. Lord knows, I am not the biggest SAAC fan out there, BUT they have provided a product that many see value in, and seeing such value are willing to pay dues to get the percieved benefits. Remember basic economics, "find a need and fill it"? They did. It's just that the train they hopped on has stopped and asked them for tickets.

I find the fact that both sides, who had their lips firmly attached the other's butt for years, have now "suddenly" discovered that the other is Satan incarnate!!!!

[Jac Mac]

Times like this I ' Allmost ' wish GM had said -'''certainly, we can supply you all the engines you need.'''

[Excaliber]

Should these articles be noted as, "Shelby, in his own words" or "Shelby, in his own world".

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by Jac Mac

Times like this I ' Allmost ' wish GM had said -'''certainly, we can supply you all the engines you need.'''

I don't see how that would matter, Ford's not the problem.

Steve

[mpanten]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

I don't see how that would matter, Ford's not the problem.

Steve

Ford is just as bad if not worse, they want a piece of everthing and anything that says mustang or has a horse on it. They are going to great lenghts to make sure no one is making money off anything mustang related, including internet boards.

[Jac Mac]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

I don't see how that would matter, Ford's not the problem.

Steve

Correct, but if 'they' had Chevys in them I would not be as interested in the car!

[RACERAL]

I may not be a smart mayunnn.... but I do know what a Cobra is.
Seriously... I don't quite under stand how a man that hates replica's so much.. builds them...
I also really think that all the interest in Cobras somehow has been helped along by the replicas..It only flattery. if NO replicas had ever been made... do you think the interest would have been where it has the last 15 years.....

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by RACERAL

I may not be a smart mayunnn.... but I do know what a Cobra is.
Seriously... I don't quite under stand how a man that hates replica's so much.. builds them...
I also really think that all the interest in Cobras somehow has been helped along by the replicas..It only flattery. if NO replicas had ever been made... do you think the interest would have been where it has the last 15 years.....

My thoughts as well. Without the replicas and the enthusiasts, he wouldn't be selling Cobras now. I think his biggest problem is that he wants to be the only game in town and is actually trying to accomplish that. If he truly only wanted just the original few hundred on the roads, then why is he building more? Simple things that someone really needs to ask him.

[fostereast]

With any public figure goes two things. the Icon and the man. The icon is real he won Lemans in the 50's and was a great driver, he hoodwinked everyone into letting him build the Cobra on their money and he (along with his team) WON LOTS OF RACES. It's a pretty amazing story. And his team built a car that as kids we all dreamed about. The problem is their is also a man behind the icon that is not so like-able.

He has a charity that is rumored to keep the money that gets collected and spend it on his behalf. He has picked on everyone and everything that takes any attention away from himself. He even tossed Pete Brock under a bus the other week, which seems like a very silly no-win thing to do. He has also done a lot of other things of questionable integrity. And lets not forget about the 50 or so "lost" cars/frames he found "out back" that were just sitting there for 30 years.

For me its about the car that I loved as a kid and the people from "back in the day" that I hope to get lucky enough to meet. I also want to build my own, so a manufacturer that can provide me that experience is also a must. It's not about CS the man. I'll stick to enjoying the icon and the stories from "back in the day" and stay away from the man and any business he is involved in.

[Joewillie]

Do you put Shelby down because you build replicas and call them Cobras? What do you think of putting a Rolex name plate on a watch that is not a Rolex? Is that okay in your book? Could you justify your actions based on a theory that Rolex outsourced parts from other manufacturers and you can do the same thing? Can you justify these actions on the basis that Rolex doesn't really build a watch, anyway? Why don't you buid your own car and call it something besides a Cobra? Why do you capitalize on the iconic name of Cobra, the cars built by Carroll Shelby? Or, try this. Build a kit car and slap a Ferrari badge on the nose. Do you think Ferrari will stand idly by? Would Enzo, when he was alive, have autographed the glove box door for you? Do you share the same opinion as the thieves who buy a copy of a movie DVD or an artist's CD when no royalties are paid? Is this okay with you, too? People say, I can't afford a Cobra, so I have to buy a replica. Okay, well go out and buy a replica Rolex off the streets of New York. I have a friend that has a replica of a gold Rolex Daytona and the gold is 18 karat. The movement is even Rolex. He got it from a friend at the factory. But, you know what? It wasn't built by Rolex. It's a fake. It keeps great time. It was built by skilled artisans, so it looks great, too. But, it will never be a Rolex. The same goes for Cobras. Your kits will never be a Cobra. They are fakes. But, icredibly, Al Adkins claims the fakes havehelped along the real Cobras through flattery. He evens says Shelby hates replicas but builds them. So, let me ask youi Al, does this justify coying what Shelby has done including his name badge? Those street vendors in New York must be flattering Rolex, then. Of course, they are illegal. There are all manner of knock-off's of real merchandise.

[Jamo]

You're absolutely right, Joewille...well said.

I think all of these replica-owning leeches are a bunch of ungrateful basturds, especially Al.

[Excaliber]

Any replica, in the publics eyes, IS a Cobra. You cannot legislate public opinion. If you call it something OTHER than a Cobra, you will be misleading people. While the name is trademarked it's like many other names of products so common in the world. Pass the Kleenex, which may well be some other 'brand name'. Let's go get a Coke, I feel like having a root beer. The list goes on and on, the Cobra name is exactly the same. You can TRY to 'put a lid on it' but the genie is out of bottle. Shelby all ready lost the rights to shape and form, it is now in the public domain, as it should be. I simply call it what it is, a Cobra, there's no getting around it.

[STG]

Originally Posted by Joewillie

Do you put Shelby down because you build replicas and call them Cobras? What do you think of putting a Rolex name plate on a watch that is not a Rolex? Is that okay in your book?

I put $helby down because: He badged Cobras equipped with 428s as 427s.

I put $helby down because he has a "charity" that evidently keeps 95% of the money contributed to it.

I put $helby down because he told an interviewer that Pete Brock's design of the Daytona Coupe was the biggest mistake he's ever made.

I put $helby down because he told magazine editors that he didn't mind people making copies of his old race car only years later sue FFR (and lose) over rights he doesn't hold.

I put $helby down because he put his name on the car used in the second Gone In 60 Seconds movie even though he had nothing whatsoever to do with the Chip Foose design of "Eleanor" version 2.0.

I put $helby down because the old coot tried to convince everybody that he had a stash of original CSX3000 chassis in his Gardena, California warehouse. Yessirie, he jess found um one day and sure enough they were the rest of the uncompleted/unsold run of competition 427s. $helby applied for replacement titles to the California DMV. He figured that because the chassis were originals, he could complete them as 1965 Cobras and bypass 1990 safety and smog standards. He figured he could sell these "original" Cobras for $500,000 each. Too bad he didn't figure of AC cars owner Brian Angliss filing a lawsuit claiming that AC cars had NEVER delivered bare 427 chassis to $helby American and the chassis $helby claimed to have found were not built by AC Cars. Too bad the Los Angeles Times wrote a story about this mess with an admission by cobra restorer Mike McCluskey that $helby commissioned him to build the "original" chassis. Too bad the California DMV found out about this little charade and stopped it.

It certainly looks like $helby tried to counterfeit his very own cars. Why does he hate replicas? Is that O.K. in your book?

[Ronbo]

He doesn't seem to mind selling SPF's and Kirkhams with his name on them.

Perhaps AC should shut down this horrible wrong of Shelby replicating their car...

Funny how he mentions "now that the baby boomers have all this money, I decided to start building Cobra's again".

The man's trying to claim ownership of inventing hot-rodding basically. Guess he had to move to Vegas so he could be lulled to sleep to the sound of money jingeling...

[Buzz]

Rolex and Ferrari never shut down production, closed up shop and went chasing tulli bullies in Africa.

Neither of them declared years later in a documented interview that they had no interest in, and couldn't understand anyone else's interest in "them ol' things" (the products they used to sell - and since abandoned)

Nor did they declare years later, on record, that they find the replicas popping up here and there kinda flattering since "- hell - we couldn't even give those things away towards the end..."

They didn't then witness the growth of the flattering replica industry and the resulting new, cult like popularity "them old things" began to enjoy and suddenly decide "Hey!! That pie you found in the garbage dump was - er, ahem, IS - mine and I want a piece of it! Just because I threw it away a while back doesn't mean you can have it! On second thought, gimme back all of it!!"

If they had, I would have no problem owning a fiberglass replica tribute 1961 California Spyder or a finely handcrafted replica stainless steel oysterperpetualdivemasterchronograph (just like Jamo's).

Since they never did, I will not indulge in or condone the piracy or counterfeiting of their products past or present.

As it is, my conscience is quite clear owning and driving my replica Cobra.

Having said all that, Ol' Shel is still the hero who (however unwittingly) orchestrated the production of what turned out to be some incredibly desirable cars. All he cared about back then was winning races. The cars to him were merely incidental components of that process.

How much of the old cars' current desirability is the result of Shelby and his magic dust aura?

How much is due to the cars themselves or the natural progression of relatively limited production muscle cars to classic collector status?

How much can be attributed to the Cobra replica industry's perpetuation of the marque or SAAC keeping the flame burning and the DNA pure?

No doubt there is a mixture and the mix varies from one model to the next.

Shelby can never be ruled out of the equation, like it or not, but he is not THE equation anymore simply because he voluntarily stepped out of the picture only to jump back in years later after the others had taken up the discarded mantle and done their thing.

A modicum of reflection, honesty and humility on both sides of the fence (arguably a bit more on one side than the other) could probably accomplish far more towards resolving the current conflicts than any amount of litigation and counter litigation could ever hope to do.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Joewillie

Do you put Shelby down because you build replicas and call them Cobras? What do you think of putting a Rolex name plate on a watch that is not a Rolex? Is that okay in your book? Could you justify your actions based on a theory that Rolex outsourced parts from other manufacturers and you can do the same thing? Can you justify these actions on the basis that Rolex doesn't really build a watch, anyway? Why don't you buid your own car and call it something besides a Cobra? Why do you capitalize on the iconic name of Cobra, the cars built by Carroll Shelby? Or, try this. Build a kit car and slap a Ferrari badge on the nose. Do you think Ferrari will stand idly by? Would Enzo, when he was alive, have autographed the glove box door for you? Do you share the same opinion as the thieves who buy a copy of a movie DVD or an artist's CD when no royalties are paid? Is this okay with you, too? People say, I can't afford a Cobra, so I have to buy a replica. Okay, well go out and buy a replica Rolex off the streets of New York. I have a friend that has a replica of a gold Rolex Daytona and the gold is 18 karat. The movement is even Rolex. He got it from a friend at the factory. But, you know what? It wasn't built by Rolex. It's a fake. It keeps great time. It was built by skilled artisans, so it looks great, too. But, it will never be a Rolex. The same goes for Cobras. Your kits will never be a Cobra. They are fakes. But, icredibly, Al Adkins claims the fakes havehelped along the real Cobras through flattery. He evens says Shelby hates replicas but builds them. So, let me ask youi Al, does this justify coying what Shelby has done including his name badge? Those street vendors in New York must be flattering Rolex, then. Of course, they are illegal. There are all manner of knock-off's of real merchandise.

As you sit in your Texas homestead and write these interesting viewpoints, can I inquire as to what "Shelby product" your currently own?

Bill S.

[DTurnbull]

Atta-Boy, Buzz! You're absolutely right!

[SPF2245]

Hey Joewillie, good comments...but much like your Rolex example...Ferrari's have been copied for years, in the 80's the Pontiac Fiero was a popluar chassis to remake Ferrari's and Lambos. I don't recall any complaints by either manufacture. No, I'm sure Enzo would not sign the dash...but if he would, would he charge $200?!?!?!?!
As for my "fake", I sleep well at night because...well, it has a "Shelby" vin plate which through lawyers was settled and now installed on all new Superformance MKIII's and funny how now I can go to a dealer and see a "fake" SPF sold next to a "fake" Shelby continuation car (real funny if you read all the HATE Shelby intially had for SPF during the litigation process). I guess my point is this, the man never complained for what twenty or thirty years...with knowledge of what was happening. But now, I am supposed to support his complaints when the reason for the complaints seem like cheap shots at the people who have either kept his name growing, created the desire for a car he himself abandonded for the next two generations of hotroders or have simply protected his "real cars" through careful documentation. No, this old fart has no respect for anyone or anything that doesn't send him a check.

[Trevor Legate]

I also agree with the Buzz statement. Cheers.

The problem I've always had regards 'his' habit of giving two types of interview. When he talks to British journos, he hypes the good ol' AC connection, "without whom all this would never have been possible, yadda yadda" and then, just days later, will do AC down big-time to an American magazine ("winos under the bridge" (!!) and all that sh*t).

I also personally saw and heard him say a huge thank you to all the builders of replica Cobras since without their input and efforts in keeping the flame alive, the car would be lost and forgotten by now. And then he goes home to try to put them out of business. Puts a whole new twist on the term 'double standards'.

I also believe that you're never too old to stand back and take a fresh view of your life and achievements and look at the bigger picture. It would be wonderful if he could, but methinks he's just not that kind of character. I suspect that taking advice of any kind is pretty low on the list of priorities as well....