Shelby interview in Road & Track - Page 4

Ant · #61 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jac Mac

Times like this I ' Allmost ' wish GM had said -'''certainly, we can supply you all the engines you need.'''

Cut that out Jac Mac, you are starting to sound like me and a lot of the guys in the UK, Aussie and NZ who stick GM engines in anything at all.

Having said that CS did the amalgamation with AC/FORD and I know hindsight is a great thing but someone would have stuck a V8 in that chassis sooner or later, but it probably wouldnt have had the backing of a guy like CS, and the timing was right for the SCCA racing etc in the sixties. I think he should be happy the ol skinflint, he is always trying make money sometimes questionable at that. When someone comes up with a good idea there will always be copiers etc and I say he should get over it and be happy that his creation was endorsed the way it has been.

sidewaysinthird · #62 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 11:20 PM

Perhaps Mr $helby will invent something else, the internet (if Al Gore doesn't mind) or to keep in a mechanical vein of thought for him maybe his name will pop up on jet engines, or given some research time and the help of his lawyers he can claim to have ended slavery.

I don't claim to know all there is to know about the C$ vs $AAC, but no matter what Mr $helby says that group of people did more to keep his name and visions of spectacular performing "kit cars" from the 60's alive and well than anyone else could have done, especially him. Interview after interview both in print and on tape show him claiming those "old" cars were done and he didn't want anything to do with them. I'm from Texas also and I certainly can recognize some good ole' TX BS when I see it. For Pete's sake you couldn't miss this BS from outer space its so obvious.

I'm sorry JoeWilly if you think your icon is being wronged, but since it appears you are overly concerned with his repuation and know him so much better than the rest of us ask him for me to re-consider his actions and the cost to the legacy he claims he wants to defend.

I will say one last thing and hopefully someone can explain this to Mr $helby. Having a heart transplant does not mean you have to lose all your heart and soul.

I wonder how many SAAC members named their kids Carol, Carroll, Shelby etc....If that isn't respect for the man I don't know what it takes to show appreciation.

Kirkham or ERA for me...Never a CSX....Maybe I can get David Kirkham to sign my dash....He is a better engineer than CS ever was, oh wait he wasn't.

Mike

DTurnbull · #63 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 07:11 AM

The next thing you know, ol'$hel will be wanting compensation from the Sport Compact Market since he and he alone started the FWD craze with them $helby Dodges and such...

mtml427 · #64 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 08:13 AM

Wow! After reading that article I feel sorry for Shelby. One would think that at his age he wouldn't be so greedy and self asborbed.

cobra25 · #65 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 03:00 PM

When I was a kid, I was lucky enough to hang around the guys, my father included, who raced Cobras in the 60's. I heard what CS was really like in those days. Frankly, I am not surprised at all with what is going on with SAAC and CS. What surprised me was how, in the last 20 or so years, he was made out as some kind of genius, almost god-like. He is a promoter, cars, chili, whatever it took to make a buck. In the old days he owed everone money, drivers, etc. But, don't get me wrong. My first car was a 1966 GT-350 that I still have it for over 20 years now and I just ordered a CSX 4000 Cobra. So, CS is who he is and thank goodness because now I can have a Cobra nicer than my dad's original car.

Juggernaut · #66 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 03:20 PM

Wow, I knew this would be a hot topic when I posted the thread, but 5 pages worth?

I'm not sure if old CS is worth this much print.

mrmustang · #67 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 03:22 PM

Is it me, or is there something fishy here, coming first from Daly City, California then this evening from Los Angeles, CA. Seems to me the writing style is so unique that just about anyone could see through this trolls alter ego posting here in hopes of truly stirring the pot some more.

Or should we just come out and say "Hi Wally" the jig is up.....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

What'saCobra? · #68 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 09:12 PM

When asked if he wanted a soul with that new heart, he said he never cared much for fish and would rather have a good steak.

TL-
You're in for it now, mate. On the record... Of course, you are quite correct about situational ethics evidenced by press forums.

Buzz-
Nice list, starting with my favorite from early 1967.

Ant-
On the button, again.

Daddy used to say that history is written by the survivors, not necessarily the winners.
--------------------
To quote the captain of the USS Harry S. Truman:
"Peace on earth to men of goodwill; all others, standby."

Jac Mac · #69 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ant

Cut that out Jac Mac, you are starting to sound like me and a lot of the guys in the UK, Aussie and NZ who stick GM engines in anything at all.

Having said that CS did the amalgamation with AC/FORD and I know hindsight is a great thing but someone would have stuck a V8 in that chassis sooner or later, but it probably wouldnt have had the backing of a guy like CS, and the timing was right for the SCCA racing etc in the sixties. I think he should be happy the ol skinflint, he is always trying make money sometimes questionable at that. When someone comes up with a good idea there will always be copiers etc and I say he should get over it and be happy that his creation was endorsed the way it has been.

As I pointed out to Lovehammer Ant, if it had been a Chevvy I wouldnt have been as interested!

. The other thing is that guys like Nethercutt ( Hope I got that right in spelling ) had been transplanting Buicks/Fords/Chevs in Ferrari TR types since the late fifties and as we know there is more than a passing resemblance between the AC shape & Ferrari and a link with the designers/copiers of that decade, so really its hard to say that they were not all copying a design & principle ( Fit a big V8 in a small chassis) that had been done before. Hell there were even Kiwis fitting Morris Minor bodys on Ferrari single seater chassis etc & calling them All Comer saloons back in those days- perhaps that guy should be claiming royalties off everyone thats draped a saloon body over a formula chassis ever since.

tinmansunbeam · #70 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 09:09 PM

some day it will get him good

at least out of the replica cars they handle and drive better then the original
though if i had to have an original ied have one of the 260's preferably a road racing car

Johnson · #71 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jac Mac

Times like this I ' Allmost ' wish GM had said -'''certainly, we can supply you all the engines you need.'''

Didn't Shelby try to get a chevy product off the ground, I think it was an aliminum (or aluminium

) Corvette rebodied by Scaglietti. They only got three out before Chevrolet changed there mind. Comonly called the Scaglietti Corvette.

Heres a link to a small article about it.
http://www.michaelmccafferty.com/mmmvette.htm

Excaliber · #72 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 01:06 PM

Shelby has stated he also very much considered an Oldsmobile engine, which he eventually did use in the Series 1. Along with AC he also considered different cars for the project, an agreement with Donald Healey could not be hammered out. The BRAND NEW Ford V8 was the perfect choice for this project, it weighed considerably less than a small block Chevy. The GM small block is a very heavy motor, but the Oldsmobile engine is heavier than that!

In my opinion an Austin Healey 3000 (poor front suspension and solid axle rear) combined with an Oldsmobile engine (700 plus pounds in the front) would have been a spectacular failure, for a road course in particular. There are numerous 'what if's' Shelby played out to achieve his concept. A concept all ready well known and in use since the early 50's at least. Big engine, small car, nothing new there. The DIFFERENCE was finding the right combination of car and power plant. The AC and Ford was just about the best combo available in the early 60's. For price, availability, performance and the general requirements to make a 'production car'.

Could have just as easily been an Aston Martin or some other European make with or without an American engine. WHY American engine? At that time in history the best bang for the buck, horse power, cost, etc. The new Ford small block was WAY ahead of the exisiting (but heavy) GM power plants available. Another consideration might well have been the ultra light 215 cube alloy V8 or perhaps an Offenhauser power plant.

You see, you gotta have the right package deal. Ford and AC, a good call, better than an old MG with a Ford flat head. What combination would YOU use in 1961 if YOU were doing such a project?

In 1969 my brothers and myself dropped a 327 into a Morris Minor! Didn't work out so well, virtually no brakes and no handling. But it looked cool and went like stink in a straight line! Shelby, we were not!

Jac Mac · #73 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 01:54 PM

Think it might have been the 215 Olds that was under consideration, Reventlow was playing with them in some Scarabs around that time & there are pics on this site of the cross/flow manifold that Phil Remington had built with four 58mm DCO Webers for one of those. I can remember one of the Scarab single seaters out here for the 1962 Tasman series with Chuck Daigh doing the driving, car was sent to Aussie by mistake ( Not uncommon even in todays world-I frequently have to give geography lessons to Americans who think NZ is part of Australia ) and only did one race in Aust, that car had a bored & stroked 215 olds out to 3917cc according to the entry list. Shelby was also out here driving a Maserati in 1959.

Excaliber · #74 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 03:04 PM

In the 50's, and you can bet thats when Shelby first started thinking about the concept, Olds and Caddillac engines were a pretty common 'hot rod' setup. It would have been quite logical to consider their use for his project. When the NEW Olds alloy 215 came along, well, that surely would have been reason to again seriously consider Oldsmobile as a power plant. Small block Chevies, 283/327, were rapidly gaining popularity and after market parts were available by 1960, a serious contender for the project no doubt.

Ford had NOTHING even worthy of consideration at the time. An FE? Get real, heavy and largely unproven at the time with virtually no after market or 'hot rod' experience under it's belt. The 292/312 was all but a joke, universally accepted as an engine with no racing future. Ah but then, that new 221 cube (later 260/289, etc.) light weight Ford V8, whoa, suddenly it's a new ball game! Shelby was in the right place at the right time to capture 'history'.

The Olds 215 was just slightly ahead of it's time as it concerns the alloy process' available then. But 'what might have been' had research continued on that lovely little engine!

Jac Mac · #75 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

The Olds 215 was just slightly ahead of it's time as it concerns the alloy process' available then. But 'what might have been' had research continued on that lovely little engine!

It did and has continued Ernie, but its another example of being in the wrong place at the wrong time & lacking the exposure to become a 'world' example. Here are a few examples of where it went. When you look at the names involved & the categories you cannot say it was for lack of trying.
1.Jack Brabham -Formula one, World Champion. destroked to 3000cc
2.Formula A/5000 via Repco Aust.
3.Can Am & Sports cars via Frank Matich/Repco Aust.
4.TVR & well over 5 liters with various aftermarket blocks/cranks (incl flat plane.)
5. Group A touring cars ( Rover via Tom Walkinshaw )
6.Landrover/Range Rover etc etc
7.Leyland P76 Australia large saloon( Taller Block- stroked crank , out to 4.4 liter )
8. Steve Wittman & others- Motor inverted for homebuilt aircraft usage, have helped a couple of guys do this myself, even made a Holley work upside down in the process, that had a few folk scratching their heads!

Excaliber · #76 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 05:02 PM

Above all else what Shelby needed was someone with a lot of money that would provide the support for research and development. GM had the Vette and didn't need the competition and didn't want to spend the money. I suspect Donald Healey wisely turned down Shelby mostly from a financial standpoint, it's not like he was loaded with money. Ford was the perfect 'mark' (someone said one was born every minute), uh, er, 'Marque' (a brand name, especially in the automotive industry) I think I mean...

It was a big risk, but paid off well for Ford in the long run.

CSX 4039 · #77 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 06:27 PM

I should think that in the end, CS's legacy will be for his racing, and his cars in the 1960's, not his Chili, his self-serving 501(c)3, nor his nefarious business dealings. Because, that's the way America will want it. America likes all-American heros. For lack of a better example.... remembering John Glenn as the studly astronaut, rather than the lackluster Senator, or Jack Nicklaus as the player, not the underachieving course designer...

What'saCobra? · #78 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 07:51 PM

Point taken; however, lackluster is such an enormous understatement. Glenn sold his soul for everlasting fame as the oldest astro-naughty, as if being America's first complete orbit pilot was not enough. Glenn was concerned that Alan Shepard, a very funny smart fella from Derry NH, was really the first astronaut; Glenn's effort was merely a longer trip, later eclipsed by many others.

Glenn, more serious than most heart attacks, just couldn't stand the comparison. And this was LONG after Glenn was already a rich and successful Senator, albeit sans luster, but with obstructive distinction to the course of justice.

Few people today recall the big-time acrimony and arguments between Sen. Fred Thompson (TN-R) and Sen. Glenn (OH-D) in the day. John insisted that McCain be an unwarranted target included in the Keating 5 issue on a special Investigation Committee where Glenn acted as minority ranking member. For this assistance, President Clinton insisted that Glenn be awarded his last trip, flying as an observer-monkey. A very OLD monkey (77), at that.