Shelby interview in Road & Track

[JWilly]

Just to be sure...I have no problem with Joewillie, he has a right to his opinion, but in case there is any confusion, he ain't me and I ain't him. I'm sure Joewillie is happy to know that.

JWilly

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by JWilly

Just to be sure...I have no problem with Joewillie, he has a right to his opinion, but in case there is any confusion, he ain't me and I ain't him. I'm sure Joewillie is happy to know that.

JWilly

...so you say.

[CBattaglia]

I am new to this CS information. It is disappointing. I sure as hell hope that my donation to the childrens fund goes to children!! In my opinion, putting all of the reasons to not like him or how he does business (SAAC, etc) aside......It seems he has the right to be a part of any replica of his creation financially or otherwise. If not they should not be able to use the name.

Make coke but call it cola. If you call it coke, you bet your ass coke will be knockin'.

Maybe I am over simplifying??? I am a SPF owner and I think that arrangement is a good example.

I have held shelby in such high regard for so many years. It is tough to now hear all of his horrible business practices since I have become a member of this site and a replica car owner.

[Igofastr]

Joewillie,

Your pattern of posting does seem a little "slanted." Hmmm.

[Excaliber]

CBattaglia, it was tough for many if not most of us to accept the facts concerning Mr. Shelby as they came to light. Nobody wants to see their hero get tarnished. So now, with time, I'm trying to find that balance between admiring the history and yet being realistic about the truth.

[cobra25]

When I was a kid, I was lucky enough to hang around the guys, my father included, who raced Cobras in the 60's. I heard what CS was really like in those days. Frankly, I am not surprised at all with what is going on with SAAC and CS. What surprised me was how, in the last 20 or so years, he was made out as some kind of genius, almost god-like. He is a promoter, cars, chili, whatever it took to make a buck. In the old days he owed everone money, drivers, etc. But, don't get me wrong. My first car was a 1966 GT-350 that I still have it for over 20 years now and I just ordered a CSX 4000 Cobra. So, CS is who he is and thank goodness because now I can have a Cobra nicer than my dad's original car.

[mrmustang]

Is it me, or is there something fishy here, coming first from Daly City, California then this evening from Los Angeles, CA. Seems to me the writing style is so unique that just about anyone could see through this trolls alter ego posting here in hopes of truly stirring the pot some more.


Or should we just come out and say "Hi Wally" the jig is up.....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

[What'saCobra?]

When asked if he wanted a soul with that new heart, he said he never cared much for fish and would rather have a good steak.

TL-
You're in for it now, mate. On the record... Of course, you are quite correct about situational ethics evidenced by press forums.

Buzz-
Nice list, starting with my favorite from early 1967.

Ant-
On the button, again.

Daddy used to say that history is written by the survivors, not necessarily the winners.
--------------------
To quote the captain of the USS Harry S. Truman:
"Peace on earth to men of goodwill; all others, standby."

[tinmansunbeam]

some day it will get him good

at least out of the replica cars they handle and drive better then the original
though if i had to have an original ied have one of the 260's preferably a road racing car

[Excaliber]

Shelby has stated he also very much considered an Oldsmobile engine, which he eventually did use in the Series 1. Along with AC he also considered different cars for the project, an agreement with Donald Healey could not be hammered out. The BRAND NEW Ford V8 was the perfect choice for this project, it weighed considerably less than a small block Chevy. The GM small block is a very heavy motor, but the Oldsmobile engine is heavier than that!

In my opinion an Austin Healey 3000 (poor front suspension and solid axle rear) combined with an Oldsmobile engine (700 plus pounds in the front) would have been a spectacular failure, for a road course in particular. There are numerous 'what if's' Shelby played out to achieve his concept. A concept all ready well known and in use since the early 50's at least. Big engine, small car, nothing new there. The DIFFERENCE was finding the right combination of car and power plant. The AC and Ford was just about the best combo available in the early 60's. For price, availability, performance and the general requirements to make a 'production car'.

Could have just as easily been an Aston Martin or some other European make with or without an American engine. WHY American engine? At that time in history the best bang for the buck, horse power, cost, etc. The new Ford small block was WAY ahead of the exisiting (but heavy) GM power plants available. Another consideration might well have been the ultra light 215 cube alloy V8 or perhaps an Offenhauser power plant.

You see, you gotta have the right package deal. Ford and AC, a good call, better than an old MG with a Ford flat head. What combination would YOU use in 1961 if YOU were doing such a project?

In 1969 my brothers and myself dropped a 327 into a Morris Minor! Didn't work out so well, virtually no brakes and no handling. But it looked cool and went like stink in a straight line! Shelby, we were not!

[Jac Mac]

Think it might have been the 215 Olds that was under consideration, Reventlow was playing with them in some Scarabs around that time & there are pics on this site of the cross/flow manifold that Phil Remington had built with four 58mm DCO Webers for one of those. I can remember one of the Scarab single seaters out here for the 1962 Tasman series with Chuck Daigh doing the driving, car was sent to Aussie by mistake ( Not uncommon even in todays world-I frequently have to give geography lessons to Americans who think NZ is part of Australia ) and only did one race in Aust, that car had a bored & stroked 215 olds out to 3917cc according to the entry list. Shelby was also out here driving a Maserati in 1959.

[Excaliber]

In the 50's, and you can bet thats when Shelby first started thinking about the concept, Olds and Caddillac engines were a pretty common 'hot rod' setup. It would have been quite logical to consider their use for his project. When the NEW Olds alloy 215 came along, well, that surely would have been reason to again seriously consider Oldsmobile as a power plant. Small block Chevies, 283/327, were rapidly gaining popularity and after market parts were available by 1960, a serious contender for the project no doubt.

Ford had NOTHING even worthy of consideration at the time. An FE? Get real, heavy and largely unproven at the time with virtually no after market or 'hot rod' experience under it's belt. The 292/312 was all but a joke, universally accepted as an engine with no racing future. Ah but then, that new 221 cube (later 260/289, etc.) light weight Ford V8, whoa, suddenly it's a new ball game! Shelby was in the right place at the right time to capture 'history'.

The Olds 215 was just slightly ahead of it's time as it concerns the alloy process' available then. But 'what might have been' had research continued on that lovely little engine!

[Jac Mac]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

The Olds 215 was just slightly ahead of it's time as it concerns the alloy process' available then. But 'what might have been' had research continued on that lovely little engine!

It did and has continued Ernie, but its another example of being in the wrong place at the wrong time & lacking the exposure to become a 'world' example. Here are a few examples of where it went. When you look at the names involved & the categories you cannot say it was for lack of trying.
1.Jack Brabham -Formula one, World Champion. destroked to 3000cc
2.Formula A/5000 via Repco Aust.
3.Can Am & Sports cars via Frank Matich/Repco Aust.
4.TVR & well over 5 liters with various aftermarket blocks/cranks (incl flat plane.)
5. Group A touring cars ( Rover via Tom Walkinshaw )
6.Landrover/Range Rover etc etc
7.Leyland P76 Australia large saloon( Taller Block- stroked crank , out to 4.4 liter )
8. Steve Wittman & others- Motor inverted for homebuilt aircraft usage, have helped a couple of guys do this myself, even made a Holley work upside down in the process, that had a few folk scratching their heads!

[Excaliber]

Above all else what Shelby needed was someone with a lot of money that would provide the support for research and development. GM had the Vette and didn't need the competition and didn't want to spend the money. I suspect Donald Healey wisely turned down Shelby mostly from a financial standpoint, it's not like he was loaded with money. Ford was the perfect 'mark' (someone said one was born every minute), uh, er, 'Marque' (a brand name, especially in the automotive industry) I think I mean...

It was a big risk, but paid off well for Ford in the long run.

[CSX 4039]

I should think that in the end, CS's legacy will be for his racing, and his cars in the 1960's, not his Chili, his self-serving 501(c)3, nor his nefarious business dealings. Because, that's the way America will want it. America likes all-American heros. For lack of a better example.... remembering John Glenn as the studly astronaut, rather than the lackluster Senator, or Jack Nicklaus as the player, not the underachieving course designer...

[What'saCobra?]

Point taken; however, lackluster is such an enormous understatement. Glenn sold his soul for everlasting fame as the oldest astro-naughty, as if being America's first complete orbit pilot was not enough. Glenn was concerned that Alan Shepard, a very funny smart fella from Derry NH, was really the first astronaut; Glenn's effort was merely a longer trip, later eclipsed by many others.

Glenn, more serious than most heart attacks, just couldn't stand the comparison. And this was LONG after Glenn was already a rich and successful Senator, albeit sans luster, but with obstructive distinction to the course of justice.

Few people today recall the big-time acrimony and arguments between Sen. Fred Thompson (TN-R) and Sen. Glenn (OH-D) in the day. John insisted that McCain be an unwarranted target included in the Keating 5 issue on a special Investigation Committee where Glenn acted as minority ranking member. For this assistance, President Clinton insisted that Glenn be awarded his last trip, flying as an observer-monkey. A very OLD monkey (77), at that.

[Juggernaut]

Wow, I knew this would be a hot topic when I posted the thread, but 5 pages worth?

I'm not sure if old CS is worth this much print.