Original 4 inch vs. Billet Poll

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

David, I hope you weren't surprised by the feedback. It appears that about half the people are purists and the other half, like me, would prefer improvements to the underpinnings. Seems like that's the way elections go nowadays too.

Actually, I am quite happy with the results of the poll so far. Remember, the original 427 Cobra is every car enthusiasts short list of their most favorite cars of all time. It's lust factor is a 12 on a scale of 1:10. To be able to radically modify the car and still hang with (even beat) the original is quite a feat. Remember I am competing here with nostalgia and decades of history.

One thing that I do question, however...

There are people who buy Superformances, FFR's, ERA's, etc. None of them have frames that are even close to the original. So, why are people enamored with a tube chassis...even if it is a wrong tube chassis? Now, don't go off thinking I am dissing anyone here! I am not. I am asking a marketing question. Really, what I am asking is, "Hey, if I can change the chassis quite a bit from the original (FFR, SPF, ERA) then why do people still like it? I mean, what is the draw of tubes?"

My feeling is (granted, my own here and no one else needs to think like I do) if I am going to change the chassis a little...why not go whole hog and get rid of as many of the evil characteristics as possible? I mean, in the end it is not a real Cobra so why make an exact copy? I'm not trying to fool anyone. If I wanted to drive an original I can...but I invariably choose not to. On the rare occasion I do drive the original car (shows, etc), I have to laugh at (not literally) all the people who ask me, "Who's kit is it?"

David

[Power Surge]

Nobody liked my additonal option??? Even David didn't respond to it .

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Nobody liked my additonal option??? Even David didn't respond to it .

Sal,

Sorry, got caught up with making the axles for the car.

If you are going to go to all the work to make a push rod suspension (and modify the 4 inch tube chassis radically to do it) why not just go billet? I don't understand the allure of the tubes THAT much. Basically, at that point it is a different car all together so why keep the 4 inch tubes?

David

[David Kirkham]

I am starting to see a pattern here. Forgive me if I am wrong. It seems to me the older guys 50's-60's are more original oriented. (Granted not all). And the 30's-40's guys are more modern billet, bling oriented. (Again, not all). That in itself is a good marketing point--of course, only if I am right in my observations.

David

[David Kirkham]

No 3D printer yet, but my desk is covered in their parts. I have been thinking about those things for years and years. One day I will get one.

David

[Power Surge]

I dunno, I'm torn really. I like technology and advancement and improvement.

Maybe it's because this is a one off frame right now, with no real world testing. I think subconciously that makes people immediately stay away from it, and to go with what they know works. It might also be the fear of the unknown. There are plenty different chassis designs out there, but nobody makes a chassis that's constructed out of many pieces of billet aluminum bolted together. That may scare people. The car might perfom better than any chassis in the world, but with no testing behind it (stress, vibration, longevity, and salt spray testing), I doubt anyone would put one under thier ass.

Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I dunno, I'm torn really. I like technology and advancement and improvement.

Maybe it's because this is a one off frame right now, with no real world testing. I think subconciously that makes people immediately stay away from it, and to go with what they know works. It might also be the fear of the unknown. There are plenty different chassis designs out there, but nobody makes a chassis that's constructed out of many pieces of billet aluminum bolted together. That may scare people. The car might perfom better than any chassis in the world, but with no testing behind it (stress, vibration, longevity, and salt spray testing), I doubt anyone would put one under thier ass.

Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

Judging by every man (and a few women) who have walked through here, I don't think finding someone's butt to go in the seat will be a problem! Funny, if you were to see the car in real life, you might change your mind. Pictures, unfortunately, don't do it justice. As for bolts holding everything together...remember, most cars are held together with bolts anyway. Even connecting rods are held together with bolts and they are subject to stupid amounts of vibration and loading. All jet engines (at least the ones I have seen) are held together with bolts. We are lucky on this one that we have Loctite as well!

How does it perform??? Not sure yet. But from years of experience and having built over 650 cars, I have a pretty good idea.

David

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I dunno, I'm torn really. I like technology and advancement and improvement.

Maybe it's because this is a one off frame right now, with no real world testing. I think subconciously that makes people immediately stay away from it, and to go with what they know works. It might also be the fear of the unknown. There are plenty different chassis designs out there, but nobody makes a chassis that's constructed out of many pieces of billet aluminum bolted together. That may scare people. The car might perfom better than any chassis in the world, but with no testing behind it (stress, vibration, longevity, and salt spray testing), I doubt anyone would put one under thier ass.

Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

I put the bold signal in the wrong place...oh well.

I think folks see the truth in the billet chassis, and I'm betting it would be muy goodo. It just seems like putting a new heart in an old guy...sometimes the result can be, shall we say, a different animal entirely.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

---Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

I think too many people put too much emphasis on frame design, when I think for the most part, assuming the frame is of sufficient strength, it doesn't matter what type of frame it is, tubular, square, space frame, etc. I think of far greater importance is suspension design and settings, the take off points for the control arms, camber settings and change rate with travel, spring rate, tire pressure, etc. I just don;t think the frame has that much of an impact on how the car handles.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I am starting to see a pattern here. Forgive me if I am wrong. It seems to me the older guys 50's-60's are more original oriented. (Granted not all). And the 30's-40's guys are more modern billet, bling oriented. (Again, not all). That in itself is a good marketing point--of course, only if I am right in my observations.

David

Seems logical...difference between some of us watching them race in their prime, and others playing with their Matchbox versions on the living room rug.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Seems logical...difference between some of us watching them race in their prime, and others playing with their Matchbox versions on the living room rug.

You may be right. I am the Matchbox generation, sure enough. I remember my most favorite (and fastest too) match box (or Hot Wheels, don't remember which) was a GT-40! I loved that car! Beat every kid on the block with it at the races. My earliest automotive memories are of mom and dad complaining of the oil embargo and soaring gas prices...seems like history is repeating itself again.

David

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Actually, I am quite happy with the results of the poll so far. Remember, the original 427 Cobra is every car enthusiasts short list of their most favorite cars of all time. It's lust factor is a 12 on a scale of 1:10. To be able to radically modify the car and still hang with (even beat) the original is quite a feat. Remember I am competing here with nostalgia and decades of history.

One thing that I do question, however...

There are people who buy Superformances, FFR's, ERA's, etc. None of them have frames that are even close to the original. So, why are people enamored with a tube chassis...even if it is a wrong tube chassis? Now, don't go off thinking I am dissing anyone here! I am not. I am asking a marketing question. Really, what I am asking is, "Hey, if I can change the chassis quite a bit from the original (FFR, SPF, ERA) then why do people still like it? I mean, what is the draw of tubes?"

My feeling is (granted, my own here and no one else needs to think like I do) if I am going to change the chassis a little...why not go whole hog and get rid of as many of the evil characteristics as possible? I mean, in the end it is not a real Cobra so why make an exact copy? I'm not trying to fool anyone. If I wanted to drive an original I can...but I invariably choose not to. On the rare occasion I do drive the original car (shows, etc), I have to laugh at (not literally) all the people who ask me, "Who's kit is it?"

David

...maybe if you used square billet framing you would perk their interest.

Personally (and you already know this of me), I like the old stuff with (as Chuck has said) modern stuff where it makes sense (brakes, shocks). I also have the the first generation adjustable suspension pieces we swapped off your car. That is about the level I like, because I want the same general feel of the 60s Cobra. My C6 Vette has every modern wiz-bang suspension/handling device there is short of a full race car, and while impressive as he!!, it is predictible and maybe just a touch too safe for an old fart looking for some excitment.

But that's me.

I'm reminded of a story that my friends have heard me repeat waaaaay too many times.

NASA and the Fisher Space Pen Company got together and spent millions developing a new ink gel that would work in zero gravity, extreme temperature conditions and even when wet, and then a pressurized pen cartridge that would deliver it in a steady flow. Damn thing worked great and still does, and was highly acclaimed as a masterful engineering acheivment.

The Russians used pencils. They met all the same criteria.



Edit...sometimes I like pencils. But I also use Jorge Hysek pens, so go figure.

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Actually, I am quite happy with the results of the poll so far. Remember, the original 427 Cobra is every car enthusiasts short list of their most favorite cars of all time. It's lust factor is a 12 on a scale of 1:10. To be able to radically modify the car and still hang with (even beat) the original is quite a feat. Remember I am competing here with nostalgia and decades of history.

One thing that I do question, however...

There are people who buy Superformances, FFR's, ERA's, etc. None of them have frames that are even close to the original. So, why are people enamored with a tube chassis...even if it is a wrong tube chassis? Now, don't go off thinking I am dissing anyone here! I am not. I am asking a marketing question. Really, what I am asking is, "Hey, if I can change the chassis quite a bit from the original (FFR, SPF, ERA) then why do people still like it? I mean, what is the draw of tubes?"

My feeling is (granted, my own here and no one else needs to think like I do) if I am going to change the chassis a little...why not go whole hog and get rid of as many of the evil characteristics as possible? I mean, in the end it is not a real Cobra so why make an exact copy? I'm not trying to fool anyone. If I wanted to drive an original I can...but I invariably choose not to. On the rare occasion I do drive the original car (shows, etc), I have to laugh at (not literally) all the people who ask me, "Who's kit is it?"

David

I was waiting to see if that question was raised.

For the most part, all of the cars manufactured today are a replica in looks only. All of them have improvements for the handling and such.

I for one got the drive an original back when I was 16. Yes, it was long ago, but I still remember how primative it was. The SPF I have, while still not a modern car by any means is still light years ahead of that original.

I honestly believe that if a person had the chance to drive an original and then their own car, they would pick their car over the original if the decision was based solely on the handling of the car.

[Hoofa]

"what is the draw of tubes?"

The only tubes I really care about are the big ass 4" ones. When I saw my first Cobra as a kid, thought it was cool then I looked under it and saw the tubes, that's when I fell in love. It just looked so strong. But I also love new technology. You already know my solution to that. Although my new chassis idea is a complete departure from tubes too.

"if I am going to change the chassis a little...why not go whole hog and get rid of as many of the evil characteristics as possible?"
That was my feeling on the body, I changed the scoop, next thing you know the body was cut into pieces. Some people hate it some absolutely love it. I don't really care either way... I'm havin fun, looks like you guys are too. Can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve. What a great time to be alive, with this technology and software anyone can easily build their dream. Do you guys have a 3d printer yet?