The legacy is reborn: Elegant Motors, then Indy Exotics, is now Classic City Motors

[BT SNAKE]

I saw the guy with the Cobra that had a VW engine in it. He was happy as horse in a hay field. God bless him and I hope everyone owns what makes them happy.
I ain't never gonna point a finger and say anything but it
makes the guy happy. That's all that matters really.

Hersh

[Excaliber]

It's obvious in the first post what kind of car CobraDan has, which has nothing to do with the standards of what does or doesn't make for a good replica.

I've never been to a car show where the winner or trophies were based solely on how 'nice' the owner is. Get a freakin' reality grip here guy's, SOME replicas are just poorly done imitations, end of story!

The VW powered replica Cobra I'm thinking of is: Heavy (and I mean HEAVY) silver metal flake paint job. "Fender Skirts" over the rear wheels like the 1950's 'Lead Sleds' ran. The VW engine, mounted in the rear, sports a 'bundle of snakes' exhaust painted to look like a snake with a MONGOOSE or something which appears to be caught in the coils of the 'snake'. Original? A perfect 10 there! Certainly 'one of a kind'! Last time I saw it I think it was on e-bay for the umpteenth time and didn't sell for a mere $12,000, or was it $15K? The CARS appearance and specs have nothing to do with 'how nice' the owner is.

Hersh, I totally agree, if it makes you happy, go with it.

[CobraDan]

I never posted to show the standards of what does or doesn't make for a good or bad replica only to inform that Elegant Motors was back. Normally all you have to do to find out the replica owned is to look in the right corner of the poster and if you want pictures click on the camera under the posters name. Actually I'm a car guy and I even like the Bill Thomas Cheetah but personally I don't like the roadster version of Shell Valleys Cheetah. I actually like all cobra manufacturers cars as I have never seen two the same. Right now if I had the money I would run out and buy a Kirkham replica but right now I don't think I can afford to put the gas into the one I do own.

[ROUSHAC]

Dan, enjoy your car and just remember that what some have posted on this thread about other people's cars are just opinions.

And opinions are just like *ssholes, right, Ernie?

[Bumpster]

Excaliber -
Since you are "embarrased (sp) to be associated in the same hobby with an abomination such as this," let me be the first to invite you to take up another hobby where your fellow hobbyists maintain standards of which you can accept.
Now that you have "moved up" to an AC replica, apparently those of who have a Cobra replica that is of lesser value, authenticity, or whatever your perception of quality is, should immediately destroy them and bury the pieces in our back yards so as not to detract from the value of yours.

Bumpster

[Excaliber]

You might be right Bumpster! The current low standards and mass manufacturing of replica Cobras has so saturated the market with low cost "wanna be's" the hobby is changing, has changed, dramatically. The demographics of owners have changed along with it. The 'new' Classic City Motors web site is right on target for todays market. At the current rate of change, in a few more years, MANY replica Cobras will be little more than 'used cars' littering trailer courts! Prices are all ready in the tank and headed down, the hobby IS dieing, the standards HAVE been lost.

Make no mistake, some people HAVE sold their replicas for one simple reason, they have lost/are loosing their 'exclusivity' and along with that, their value.

So you have a Hunter FIA? Why an FIA? Because there are SO many 427's out there all ready? How's it's value holding up? Do you expect to 'break even' or loose money if you sell? MANY of todays buyers ask the question: If I buy a replica Cobra will I be able to sell it at or near what I paid for it? Changing demographics you see, in years past that was NOT a primary concern of ownership. You bought the car because you MUST, you HAD to have it, there were no options. You understood and appreciated the history and the specs of the real cars, it was a deep passion. You did what you had to do to get one.

Now it's a freakin' 'investment', a toy to be traded in when you get bored. Why NOT a side oiler? Obvious reason, you can buy a 351W for peanuts compared to the cost of a side oiler (and listen to the excuses, it's better, makes more power, easier to work on, get parts for, etc. etc.). I saved and scrimped and scratched to get the dough to get one, because THATS what the real cars ran 'back in the day'! No excuses! That kind of passion is being strangled by the new demographics of ownership who readily accept the premise 'anything goes'. And the manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank, cashing in and encouraging that very marketable 'sales pitch' to a new breed of replica owners.

Yet there remain a few, some who DO 'get it'. Where the passion still burns bright to get it right. But there voice grows weak, being drowned out by the clamor of the politically correct crowd espsouing the new mantra, 'anything goes'.

[rnocobra]

I say live and let live. If we don't take ourselves too seriously we can all get a good laugh when a design turns into the Barry Bonds version of the original. Lets not forget that one man's abomination is another's sweet ride - Don't forget that there are those out there that firmly believe that each of the replicas we treasure are in fact abominations of the original. Go figure.

[CobraDan]

Ernie,
You are sure living in some dream world as any cobra or any car will normally loose money on resale unless you have one of those that an elite few do a real cobra, although I know many that have made a profit selling their replica cobras and are actually in the business building replicas and making a living doing it. Elegant Motors was around way before Superformance, Backdraft Racing, and Factory Five and many others producing their own version of a donor car concept. I bought mine way back in 1987 and have done every thing including painting the car and have finished it in my retirement to put it on the rode. I have no idea why I bought a cobra replica other than I liked the body style as it was also bought before the internet and club cobra or ffcobra or my now grown knowledge of the real cobra and replicas through this site. Why do I have a Big Block Chevy engine instead of an FE 427 side-oiler in mine well since mine is actually a Corvette that now looks like a cobra I thought it was a better choice. Since I and you have been around long enough to have purchased a 427 as did Shelby from Ford for around $750 I'll be damned that I would pay the asking price of today's FE engines or there all aluminum replica version. Why did most 427 cobras have 428 installed because they only cost Shelby $350 instead of the $750 price of the 427. I'm still working on my cobra as I recently installed power- steering what a difference that made and I'm almost ready to install my hard top. This hard top was made to fit a Factory Five and didn't release well from the mold, a cheap price was paid but having to lengthen and widen it has many man hours attached to the almost now finished product. When I paint my hard top black with my yellow body and my decal indicting a Dragonsnake it will some what replicate the real Dragonsnake CSX2427. Do you really think that if replication of the real cobra hadn't happened we would all be sitting before our computers writing about them, I don't think so. I never wanted or needed a replica that looked exactly like the real cobra and my Elegant Motors will do me just fine. I just wanted to get in a few last replies to this thread before my buddies, both Rons and Brent shut this thread down.

[Excaliber]

Just a market analysis Dan, I could be wrong, but I don't think I'm to far off the mark. Replicas used to hold their value fairly well, I made a profit on the Excal. As did some of my friends when they sold/traded their relplicas. But those days are gone, you are correct car's will normally loose money on a resale. In todays market replicas are no longer an exception to that rule, generally speaking. The classic concept of 'supply and demand' being the primary reason for declining value.

The very high end cars (Kirkham, Shelby, ERA) do some what better, but even they are being impacted. Of course the economy in general also plays a roll, but prices were dropping fast BEFORE the current economy crisis and will now acellerate as a result.

Dan, your a wise man to do much of your own work. It not only saves a bundle but it is in the true spirit of the hot rod world. It's that hands on approach that creates a special pride of ownership.

NOTE:
It's personal attacks within a thread that get them shut down, when it turns ugly. Personally I can weather the storm and consider this thread a 'spirited' discussion of a controversial nature.

[Hoofa]

I hear Cobra prices dropping....Everyone wants one of these.

[CobraDan]

In November of last year when I attended the Reptile Roundup Wayne brought his Factory Five Big Red one of many that he has built for profit and even though it was a Factory Five his asking price was $50,000 and I asked if he had a problem marketing one of the lesser value cobra replicas although now the biggest seller replica of any of the cobras out there and his answer was NO. If you look at his web site www.verycoolparts.com you will see that Big Red was sold. The very first time he met me and my car in London Ohio he personally congratulated me in completing an Elegant Motors Cobra as I had no directions from the manufacturer or any internet forum to ask how I should hold a screw driver to complete my project. From the earliest cobra replica companies and one of the oldest in the business the Weaver brothers Unique and still growing, selling, and manufacturing their replicas don't really need advertising because they get all the orders they can handle. Each and every year they attend the Turkey Rod Run only so people will not say, look the Weaver brothers must have passed on as they are not in attendance. We have had over 30 cobra replica companies go under and 30 more are going strong and each and every day we find a new manufacturer like Hurricane and now returning Elegant Motors to a business that is failing I don't think so.

[Excaliber]

Dan says,

I asked if he had a problem marketing one of the lesser value cobra replicas...

My point exactly, the lesser value cars are flooding the market!
$50K for an FFR, no matter what the specs, is an exceptional price in TODAYS market. It doesn't set a trend at it concerns the overall price range for that brand. FFR's are readily available for near half that amount today. A really nice alloy Kirkham recently changed hands in the $60K range, perhaps that too is an exception to the current market trend? Time will tell...

If I was in the market today I would seriously consider a used replica of higher quality over a new replica of lesser quality. And my 'market analysis' is basically addressing the used car market. Low end manufacturers, for the most part, are doing well with new car sales. On the high end, Kirkham and Shelby, sales are still brisk as well. But I think the hand writing is on the wall, the current pace will be difficult to maintain.

The current trend is toward more modern components and lower cost in an effort to attract a wider range of buyers, and it's working. That has ALWAYS been FFR's marketing plan, many are simply duplicating it. It will be interesting to see how FFR, clearly a market leader when it comes to low cost, does with it's anticipated new "Dick Smith" body style. A move toward a more original style shape than the current FFR body style. IF the price is right, I think they will do well with this one. At least until the bubble bursts.

Hoofa, adding fuel to the fire!

[CobraDan]

Ernie,
I think its time you return to the mainland and get a real picture of what is happening. I remember how the wife and I where greeted the weekend right after 911 when we visited Hawaii unbelievable greeting but I did return home, as I now look back maybe it was because we were the only ones on the plane as most of the others had canceled their flights. As far as selling a replica its all in knowing how to market your vehicle and I would have had a much better chance at a much higher asking price before you told every one I owned only an Elegant Motors replica. Of course right now my cobra is not for sale so this is a mute point. We have all learned a lot about cobras here at club cobra there was less than 1,000 original CSX cobras and even though Shelby is back his are continuation cobras not replicas, but has he surpassed the original number of a 1,000 units? Superformance around 2,000, Backdraft, 600, and that perky butt Factory Five 6,000 units, soon all will have surpassed the original counts. Actually the higher end cars are where some of real problems are like a new CSX4000 with a aluminum body bought from Kirkham for $13,000 and put on a Shelby which will only cost you $20,000 now. I'm I paying $7,000 more because of the name Shelby, hell yes? We had speculators raising the prices of homes in my area to the point I could not have moved to Florida a few years back and bought my home because it was 3 times its original price I paid. Why is gas at $4.00 a gallon, again speculators as it takes 6 months to get a barrel of oil from the field to the pumps. Again I like all of the cobras out there and until they actually stop selling, people will either leave the business or join the others making a new cobra replica. As you can see Hoofa started with a Factory Five to make the Hoofa Machine and if he wasn't making it to please Hoofa I'm sure some where some one would purchase his car and make it their own.

[Excaliber]

Well I hope your right Dan, maybe my 'gloom and doom' projections are just to dire to contemplate. As to the new or used price of Elegant Motors, I don't much about that market and am not speaking specifically about any one marque. It's the trend in general. RIGHT now in the for sale section of Club Cobra there are a number of replicas listed around $25K and lower. I saw one in the 'teens'!

Now compare that to a few years ago when you rarely found ANYTHING below $35K, with medium cars typically trading for $50-$60K and high end cars approaching or exceeding a $100K.

I wouldn't worry about your car being "identified", I assume your not trying to hide anything. Any serious buyer would determine an appropriate value at some point based on market conditions at the time of sale. I have no plans to sell mine either, it's 'family' and will likely follow me wherever I go, which IS to the mainland in the near future!

[CobraDan]

Ernie,
Are you posting because you are trying to catch our top poster Ron61 as you are only second or do you always have to have the last word, inquiring minds want to know? You know you are really not that far ahead of Turk as a top poster and he sold his cobra and moved to Florida a few years back. I would also have a much higher post count but they got lost in one of the computer crashes.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by CobraDan

Ernie,
Are you posting because you are trying to catch our top poster Ron61 as you are only second or do you always have to have the last word...

Well I won't give him the last word -- he's only 4900 posts in front of me.

[xlr8or]

Originally Posted by CobraDan

Ernie,
Are you posting because you are trying to catch our top poster Ron61 as you are only second or do you always have to have the last word, inquiring minds want to know?

DING DING DING!!! We have a winner.

[Excaliber]

I'm glad Ron finally caught and passed me, you know it's hell being on top!

[CobraDan]

As you get older you will find its better on the bottom than on top, much more enjoyable

[Bumpster]

Quantity is better than Quality? I think NOT!

Bumpster