What am I looking at here?? Buying Advice

[vsloun]

Long story short, my dad and I have been looking at building one for awhile.. was going to go with a factory five base and build it up but due to the economy and some other factors kept saying "someday". Something has recently presented itself. A neighbor that has a factory five model recently found something and gave my dad a call.

The listing basically states:

Selling my 1965 Shelby Cobra kit car. This car is a project that needs to be assembled. New body, pre-fab frame that will fit big or small block Ford engine. Includes Mustang GT 5.0 engine, 5-speed trans, and posi rear. Will be sharp when done.



Can anyone tell me anything by just looking at the picture? Or offer any advice of things to check into? I've read and read and read different builds over and over again.

When I called the seller I said tell me everything you know. He said he bought it a couple years ago from a guy going through divorce that had 3 of them, 2 that were complete. From what I gather the guy built them up on the side and then sold them. He does not know what kit it is, but that all the body panels are seperate and reinforced, and that when he got it the motor, trans, rear end were in the car. But he removed the motor in hopes of putting a big block in it. The frame was powder coated black, and as the chassis sits at the moment it is a roller. I am going to look at it tomorrow with my dad, neighbor, and gf's dad. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

[JRoss]

Post lots of pictures, particularly of the frame and suspension. Sombody on here will be able to identify it.

John

[mickmate]

It looks like a FFR with the grey vinylester, side marker bumps and moulded in hood scoop.

[tcrist]

There should be a number somewhere on the frame. Mine is a Classic Roadster and mine starts with CR. If you could find that frame number, that might help. Like JROSS said, lots of pictures.

Terry

[vsloun]

Thanks for the quick replies guys, pics to come tomorrow.

-John

[Double Venom]

Get a side shot-especially the door cut out area, the trunk lid and the inside of the trunk area
Almost every fiberglass Cobra kit is that color with a few exceptions of CR's which some where white.

Wheel tubs, moulded into the front, back ones seperate for later installation? Make sure above anything and everything the kit has the CMOS with it! Without it registration is almost impossible to title and might as well be a flower pot! Side marker lights ??? Hood scoop is also very much like many manufacturers. FFR-"?"
DV

[mrmustang]

Not an FFR as there are no mold release seams along the front of the nose. Will await more pictures before attempting to narrow it down.


Bill S.

[vsloun]

Originally Posted by Double Venom

Get a side shot-especially the door cut out area, the trunk lid and the inside of the trunk area
Almost every fiberglass Cobra kit is that color with a few exceptions of CR's which some where white.

Wheel tubs, moulded into the front, back ones seperate for later installation? Make sure above anything and everything the kit has the CMOS with it! Without it registration is almost impossible to title and might as well be a flower pot! Side marker lights ??? Hood scoop is also very much like many manufacturers. FFR-"?"
DV

Will do.

CMOS?? I'm assuming some sort of certificate for the DMV? I was told with a bill of sale that it would be enough? Is this not the case? That's what the BMV told me? Maybe they thought I was referring to the motor/trans/rear?

[vsloun]

So just got off the phone with the guy, and he has the title for the mustang, but does not have anything for the kit car. He said that in MI (where he is) it is not nescesary.

I found the following excerp from the ohio dmv website.

IV.
Documentation required for self-assembled inspections:

1. Titles, receipts, and documentation of the source for the replaced major component parts, which includes the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) of the source vehicle. If receipts are from a casual sale from an individual, they must be notarized. Photocopies of receipts are not acceptable.

2. The inspecting officer may require receipts or documentation for any part of questionable origin (Ohio Revised Code, Section 4505.11).

3. When "kits" are used, the manufacturer's certificate of origin must be presented.

4. A receipt for the $50 inspection fee.


AKA number 3 has me concerned. Is there any way around this issue? Or is the car the "flower pot"?

-John

[capteddie]

Originally Posted by vsloun

Will do.

CMOS?? I'm assuming some sort of certificate for the DMV? I was told with a bill of sale that it would be enough? Is this not the case? That's what the BMV told me? Maybe they thought I was referring to the motor/trans/rear?

Every state is different. Do your home work first. Make sure you have the proper paperwork. Here's an example of a CMOS.

[Double Venom]

#3, is critidal. The Manfacture of Origin is where the State will derive your NEW 17 digit seriel number from. Being a so called retired expert on kit cars especially Ohio and the ORC they will not except a title that has been issued, I.E.; Michigan that was NOT derived from the original CMOS. It may not be a problem, but it sounds like it may be and if this is the case walk away, as hard as it may be it isn't worth the nightmares involved. What cpteddie has posted above is what most of the MOS' will look like, including the FFR's.

Mr Mustang is right on holding out an opinion with what is shown. I too have suspicions of what type it is but until we get more information........

Big question: Is the frame a ladder back style frame-square tubing or a round tube frame?
DV

[vsloun]

Originally Posted by Double Venom

#3, is critidal. The Manfacture of Origin is where the State will derive your NEW 17 digit seriel number from. Being a so called retired expert on kit cars especially Ohio and the ORC they will not except a title that has been issued, I.E.; Michigan that was NOT derived from the original CMOS. It may not be a problem, but it sounds like it may be and if this is the case walk away, as hard as it may be it isn't worth the nightmares involved. What cpteddie has posted above is what most of the MOS' will look like, including the FFR's.

Mr Mustang is right on holding out an opinion with what is shown. I too have suspicions of what type it is but until we get more information........

Big question: Is the frame a ladder back style frame-square tubing or a round tube frame?
DV

Ok, The title is for the parts car (the mustang) and nothing is related to the kit paper work wise.

As for the frame square tubing is used. I also found out the it is a "custom kit". The chassis was fabricated on a jig, and did not come complete. He said that it was an option, but the previous owner opted to buy the plans and weld up the frame himself. Since this is the case could it be registered as a custom car and not a kit car? Since the chassis did not come from an authorized dealer? and was made from scratch? I am just supposing everything here, and thinking out loud if you will. I have yet to see the car and will post the pictures later today. It may end up being a mess anyways.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by vsloun

Ok, The title is for the parts car (the mustang) and nothing is related to the kit paper work wise.

Walk away from this one as you will have a difficult time to say the least in titling the car without the kits original MCO (manufacturers certificate of origin).

Originally Posted by vsloun

As for the frame square tubing is used. I also found out the it is a "custom kit". The chassis was fabricated on a jig, and did not come complete. He said that it was an option, but the previous owner opted to buy the plans and weld up the frame himself.

Sounds a bit "hokey" to me, have never heard of a manufacturer offering the chassis as "an option". Sounds to me more like an original owner who thought he could scratch build a car, got in over his head, then bailed on the project. As each owner buys what they believe is "the deal of a lifetime", they soon realize their mistake and attempt to pawn it off on the next unsuspecting buyer.



Bill S.

[Double Venom]

Again BIll is pretty accurate, I know of no manufacturer that sells the frame in a kit form, let alone selling frame plans for it. My speculation is he bought the body from a manufacturer (?) and decided he was going to build his own frame. IF this was the case (Being in OHIO) you will need a original notarized receipt from the maker of the frame and another one from the seller of the body-not necessarily the manufacuter. Then again a lot of stories get passed on along with these pre-owned cars- is the frame really home made? Or does it just need the normal parts welded/bolted on?

Where in Mi. is the car, where are you in Ohio-if you are? Any one of hundreds of guys here maybe able to look at it with you???
DV

[1985 CCX]

Bill is right, WALK on this one.

[vsloun]

Originally Posted by Double Venom

Again BIll is pretty accurate, I know of no manufacturer that sells the frame in a kit form, let alone selling frame plans for it. My speculation is he bought the body from a manufacturer (?) and decided he was going to build his own frame. IF this was the case (Being in OHIO) you will need a original notarized receipt from the maker of the frame and another one from the seller of the body-not necessarily the manufacuter. Then again a lot of stories get passed on along with these pre-owned cars- is the frame really home made? Or does it just need the normal parts welded/bolted on?

Where in Mi. is the car, where are you in Ohio-if you are? Any one of hundreds of guys here maybe able to look at it with you???
DV

Ok. I will see what he says today and post pics as well.

The car is in New Boston, Michigan, and I am in Toledo, Ohio

[vsloun]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

Bill is right, WALK on this one.

Worth looking at all? Or dont waste time on the trip?

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by vsloun

Ok, The title is for the parts car (the mustang) and nothing is related to the kit paper work wise.

As for the frame square tubing is used. I also found out the it is a "custom kit". The chassis was fabricated on a jig, and did not come complete. He said that it was an option, but the previous owner opted to buy the plans and weld up the frame himself. Since this is the case could it be registered as a custom car and not a kit car? Since the chassis did not come from an authorized dealer? and was made from scratch? I am just supposing everything here, and thinking out loud if you will. I have yet to see the car and will post the pictures later today. It may end up being a mess anyways.

Unless the builder can prove to you that he is a licensed and certified welder, I would pass on it. And don't go by the looks of the welds. I have seen good looking welds fail.

[Rickd]

Even if this were GIVEN to you it would be a mistake to invest a penny in trying to complete this build as without a MCO you can't register it (without a lot of trials and tribulations), you have no one to go back to for ANY service issues, it is a huge risk to try and build a cobra without a truly ENGINEERED chassis, and the resale value would be almost "0" for sure. There are too many VERY GOOD kit manufacturers out there, who have invested in ENGINEERING to insure that you have a solid, driveable chassis, and something that will be a genuine driveable, enjoyable car when you are done. Don't walk - RUN from this deal. Rick

[SP01715]

No offense to anyone, but this is why I have to correct anyone that uses the term "kit" when talking about my car. A "kit" car can be very well designed and built, or it can be an abortion like this one appears to be. I would walk away if I were you. just my .02.