Overheating Issues, Perplexed

[razerwire]

Have a 4" thick, 18" tall, 22" wide fluidyne radiator. one 16" puller fan with no shroud. two pusher fans just for looks , but can switch on if I want to, outherwise they freewheel. most important nose of car finished so all air has to pass thru rad. Also very,very,very important 20 deg tilt to rad. 468 fe engine ,las vegas, 80 deg c. 950 rpm idle 80 c. down road.
car does not overheat. Note 0 deg would mean rad. is vertical, degree finder shows 20 deg when placed on top of rad.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by razerwire

Have a 4" thick, 18" tall, 22" wide fluidyne radiator. one 16" puller fan with no shroud. two pusher fans just for looks , but can switch on if I want to, outherwise they freewheel. most important nose of car finished so all air has to pass thru rad. Also very,very,very important 20 deg tilt to rad. 468 fe engine ,las vegas, 80 deg c. 950 rpm idle 80 c. down road. car does not overheat. Note 0 deg would mean rad. is vertical, degree finder shows 20 deg when placed on top of rad.

Well that just about does it for me.

My radiator is 27W x19Hx3T and is tilted 25*. The off-the-shelf Fluidyne for Cobra is FHP30-SHELBY and is 23.65W X 18.0H X 3.5T. I am guessing this is not your radiator so did you have them make a larger one with the Cobra connections or did you use a different model? I just talked with them and they'll make a cusstom size with Cobra connections for $150 more. I guess I could go that route and just not send my kid to college $$.

For those who know, could I not use the off-the-self Fluidyne and just shroud the front sides to cover up the 2" difference on each side?

[767Jockey]

I don't see why not. For what it's worth, I have the off the shelf Fluidyne for my car, and it's beautifully made. My car is still in pieces (don't get me started on that......) so I can't tell you how it works, but it really is a nice piece.

[razerwire]

It would seems to me that the water has to stay in the rad for a time so the exchange from air to water can take place. I show size and tilt of rad. in my post so you know it can be cooled. Tilt will effect the transfer of water to air going down the road. Running the water thru the rad. to fast will not give the rad. a chance to exchange heat.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

I don't see why not. For what it's worth, I have the off the shelf Fluidyne for my car, and it's beautifully made. My car is still in pieces (don't get me started on that......) so I can't tell you how it works, but it really is a nice piece.

My problems PALE in comparison to yours. I am sure you'd LOVE to be chasing an overheating problem in your newly completed car. I am feeling for ya.

Originally Posted by razerwire

It would seems to me that the water has to stay in the rad for a time so the exchange from air to water can take place. I show size and tilt of rad. in my post so you know it can be cooled. Tilt will effect the transfer of water to air going down the road. Running the water thru the rad. to fast will not give the rad. a chance to exchange heat.

Well that's exactly what I thought, though I have had two radiator companies (one of which was PRC who supplied my Hurricane radiator) tell me that with aluminum that is absolutely not the case. I failed to ask Fluidyne that, but you can bet I will tomorrow.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

My problems PALE in comparison to yours. I am sure you'd LOVE to be chasing an overheating problem in your newly completed car. I am feeling for ya.

In my case, misery does NOT love company. I am thoroughly enjoying the fact that your car is up and running. Enjoy it, you worked very hard on it and it looks great.

[Steve Gallegos]

Try the restrictor washer, If your pully is over and water pump to efficient, the water is moving to fast through the raditor. That what was wrong with mine. Put the restrictor in, temp came down.

[fkemmerer]

Originally Posted by razerwire

It would seems to me that the water has to stay in the rad for a time so the exchange from air to water can take place. I show size and tilt of rad. in my post so you know it can be cooled. Tilt will effect the transfer of water to air going down the road. Running the water thru the rad. to fast will not give the rad. a chance to exchange heat.

What you say here is true but you need to keep in mind the "normal" RPM range that a typical water pump operates in. This would be from idle (say 900 RPM) up to 6000 RPM. When we speed the water pump at idle, we are moving the flow characteristic of the radiator from a limited flow rate more into the range that would be the case at light throttle/low rpm cruise. I have used "overdrive" water pump pulley's on two motors which were "heat monsters" and they helped in both cases.

- Fred

[DanEC]

if this has already been covered I apologize as I haven't read all 5 or 6 pages of posts. Are you running vacuum advance hooked up to full time (not ported) a vacuum source. A working vacuum advance unit can make a very large difference in coolant temp on a big block Chevy - I've experienced it. I don't know why a Ford should be any difference. The additional timing at idle and cruise will greatly lower coolant temperatures.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by olddog

On another post, I think you compared radiator sizes. If the radiator is of adaquate size for the engine, that is ruled out.

It was merely suggested that the radiator was sufficient based on the fact that other Hurricane guys are running and "managing" big blocks with it. I think a few struggle to keep theirs cool. I don't think we have yet to prove that its anywhere near sufficient. Its only a 2-row, while most others are 3 including the CSX cars. I do plan on rechecking a number of temp points with an IR gun ASAP but at this point, I am arriving at the opinion that the radiator is not sufficient.

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

In my case, misery does NOT love company. I am thoroughly enjoying the fact that your car is up and running. Enjoy it, you worked very hard on it and it looks great.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Steve Gallegos

Try the restrictor washer, If your pully is over and water pump to efficient, the water is moving to fast through the raditor. That what was wrong with mine. Put the restrictor in, temp came down.

I have ordered the restrictor kit and plan to try it before anything drastic like a $500 radiator.

Originally Posted by DanEC

Are you running vacuum advance hooked up to full time (not ported) a vacuum source.

Mechanical advance.

[danc30]

Elmariachi

PM Sent

[razerwire]

If you talk to fluidyne you could ask them what Finishline Motorsports Las Vegas used in the comp cars and what the specs are. I would call Finishline for you but they are closed. Then you could compare specs to your rad.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by razerwire

If you talk to fluidyne you could ask them what Finishline Motorsports Las Vegas used in the comp cars and what the specs are. I would call Finishline for you but they are closed. Then you could compare specs to your rad.

That's model FHP-30-SHELBY, same as discussed above. Its a 3-row versus the PRC 2-row. I am pretty sure I can make it work and use sheet aluminum to enclose the side up front in the nose. Its already setup for the correct driver-in, passenger-out ports and has the air bleed port from the expansion tank. The PRC Hurricane radiator requires a passenger side main hose exit on the expansion tank, reverse of the Fluidyne. This coming after I finally got my expansion tank to stop leaking. So I got that going for me.

Restrictors and new IR gun arrive tomorrow, then we'll be doing more testing.

[ERA Chas]

[quote=Restrictors and new IR gun arrive tomorrow, then we'll be doing more testing.[/QUOTE]

Any news to update us? Very good effort you're putting in and hope for a good solution for you.

[elmariachi]

The restrictors and new IR gun arrived yesterday and we are going to do some temp testing today and I will be trying the restrictor tomorrow. CC user "Patrick" has been kind enough to lend his opinion in a number of one-on-one emails with me with regard to timing and carburation tuning. Patrick was of the opinion that 20* base was possibly too much initial timing and that could have been contributing to the additional heating. We have backed it off from 20 initial to 16* base + 21 advance and tuned the Demon accordingly. I won't say the carb is running exactly right yet or that I've sorted out the ideal curve, but I am confident that the timing was contributing the to build-up of some of the heat. And the car idles at 1000 rpms albeit very lopey due the high lift cam using the current mixture tuning. Today we are going to idle it in the heat and see to what extent it overheats, and that will give me a chance to take some temp readings on the radiator face.

One of my biggest gripes about CC is that, unlike several other forums I frequent, there are so many threads started by people who never care enough to come back and "close the book." That will not be the case here; however this ends up will be detailed here for those that can benefit later.

Thanks, more to follow.

[67FEfastback]

I've been dropping in on this thread from time to time.
I'd say to keep methodically going through everything.

Different car, but similar problems. Fortunately I had a pressure tester to help as well.
FE 1st boiled over. (new rad-high flow 'stat)
Added an expainsion tank
pressure tested the system
fan clutch had failed - replaced that
pulled the 'stat it had stopped opening (brand new Mr gasket)
tested the rad cap = NFG not holding pressure.

Put it all together
No more boil overs
Still hot at traffic lights, heats up when spirted on the freeway
Added twin elect. pushers
Better but it's still winter / spring.
Have a new BB aluminum raditor to go into the car, in a couple weeks.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by 67FEfastback

I've been dropping in on this thread from time to time.I'd say to keep methodically going through everything.

Thanks for the encouraging words. We just did some temp testing, 1000 rpm idle, outside temps about 85F and 50% humidity, hot midday sun, light breeze, hood up. Temps rose slowly through about 15 mins idling up past 90 finally to 100*C. At 100*C, the IR gun says temps at the radiator intake pipe is 205*F and at the lower opposite corner at the exit pipe its 195*F, only 10* difference. Not nearly enough I'd say. We shut her down at 100*C so I don't yet know what she would climb to following the tuning exercises.

Engine bay temps on intake and carb are around 165-190 with IR gun with dash gauge showing 100*C. Oil pressure is good (25 psi) at idle and oil temps were around 95*C/205F.

I am tired of wrenching so I am going to get in the pool and take her to the Saturday night hot rod drive-in tonight and enjoy her. Restrictor testing tomorrow.

Thanks,

[ERA Chas]

El,
X 2 about the 'close the book' guys!
And the guys who ask for help, get serious responses and never revisit the thread they started-much less appreciate the help they got. Makes me hate helping out if the guy doesn't care enough to reply whether the instructions helped or not and post results.
Off my soapbox now and bought more popcorn seeking your very detailed and helpful methods at solving this common problem.
Thanks from me.

[DocDirk]

Will have the very high CFM fan in by Tuesday and hope to post some running results on Wednesday... There is very little I haven't done that's been described in this wonderfully detailed thread except the last ditch option of moving my transmission and oil coolers off to the side of the radiator to optimize incoming air temps...hope not to have to!

I'll keep you posted though on Thursday my 16 y.o. and I are taking her on her maiden voyage to Arizona and back to mid Calif...hope to find a few stretches of Route 66 still driveable.

Regards,

Dirk

[67FEfastback]

Aluminum rad will get installed in a couple weeks. Much thicker than the old one.