Can a Cobra hang with Z06, GTR, GT3 on Track?

[MCA]

Newbie here. Shopping for a street car to to run on 3 or 4 track days per year. (NASA, HPDE, etc.)...not wheel to wheel. Drive to track, no trailer.

Will probably buy a BDR, if I go the Cobra route. I'd like to know from those of you who have tracked your cars whether a "streetable" Cobra can hang with the likes of fast track day cars such as the GT-R, Z06, Exige, or 911 Turbo/GT3. If I buy a BDR, it will likely be equipped with a Roush 427R or SR TW...possibly the new Ford Motorsports 427. DOT 17" racing tires. Maybe limited slip differential. "Big Brake" and other track oriented mods only if necessary. I intend to run at Northeastern tracks such as Lime Rock and Monticello.

I feel that the Cobras (and GT40s) look and sound far better than the above mentioned alternatives...with a trade off in terms of practicality. I do realize that the Cobra will be far more challenging to drive on a track compared to the other cars, especially the GT-R. By way of experience, I've done some Skip Barber and raced a shifter kart years ago. Thanks in advance for your responses.

[Jerry Clayton]

Well if you raced the shifter kart on the big road racing tracks you will probably be disappointed with the performance of any of the mentioned cars as they will not get near the lap times a 125 shifter kart will turn

[lloyds1]

The Exige is not as fast as the other cars you mentioned on a road course, and there is no way a cobra will keep up with them (maybe the Exige, depends on the track), especially if you are an experienced driver. That being said, you will have way more fun driving it on the street and just as much fun on the track, you will just be a few seconds a lap slower. Also, just an FYI, if you are used to driving those cars and karts the cobra will feel like a tractor compared to them (a bloody fast tractor though).

Originally Posted by MCA

Newbie here. Shopping for a street car to to run on 3 or 4 track days per year. (NASA, HPDE, etc.)...not wheel to wheel. Drive to track, no trailer.

Will probably buy a BDR, if I go the Cobra route. I'd like to know from those of you who have tracked your cars whether a "streetable" Cobra can hang with the likes of fast track day cars such as the GT-R, Z06, Exige, or 911 Turbo/GT3. If I buy a BDR, it will likely be equipped with a Roush 427R or SR TW...possibly the new Ford Motorsports 427. DOT 17" racing tires. Maybe limited slip differential. "Big Brake" and other track oriented mods only if necessary. I intend to run at Northeastern tracks such as Lime Rock and Monticello.

I feel that the Cobras (and GT40s) look and sound far better than the above mentioned alternatives...with a trade off in terms of practicality. I do realize that the Cobra will be far more challenging to drive on a track compared to the other cars, especially the GT-R. By way of experience, I've done some Skip Barber and raced a shifter kart years ago. Thanks in advance for your responses.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by MCA

Maybe limited slip differential. "Big Brake" and other track oriented mods only if necessary.

No maybe-you'll need both.

[bobcowan]

The new Z06 is pretty much unbeatable. Lots of power, anti-lock brakes, traction control, etc. It is truly a race car with a license plate. The only mods you need to make to that car is a better harness and tires.

The big draw back to a cobra is the aerodynamics. It'sa pretty much a flying brick. Takes a lot of power to get over 140mph.

That being said, a good Cobra with a good driver can run with the big boys. When I go to the track, there's only two or three cars that are consistantly faster. They all cost a lot more than mine. And the drivers have a lot more experiance.

Unless you're willing to spend upwards of $500K, you'll always find someone who's a little faster than you.

But, here's the best part: 140mph in an open roadster is a hoot. When you skim that inside wall at 100mph, it makes your heart go pitter-pat. Don't worry about beating the corvettes and GT-R's, just go and have a good time.

[scottj]

I've run against the Lotus Exige and the C5 & C6 Z06. Me on Hoosier R4S03s and the others on R6s, equal drivers. I've also run against a Superformance with a Roush 427R, and Hoosiers. The SPF wasn't close to the others... cornering or on power. The Exige was off by 8 sec/lap at Autobahn CC in Illinois, although his corner speed was right there. At Blackhack and Autobahn the C6 Z06 is the closest I've come up against... about 2-3 seconds off. The driver of the Z06 and I are within .1 seconds racing in equal Karts, so we feel it was an accurate assesment of the car's abilities. At the end of the day the Z06 drives home with the air on and my Cobra goes in the trailer... winched in at that on account of the button clutch... You are going to need a serious Cobra...

[MCA]

Thanks for all the responses. Pretty much confirms what I suspected. I'm really looking for something a little "less" exciting than the 125cc shifter. That was 15 years ago. The best description I've heard of those karts is "violent". Never did run it at a full sized road course, but what a busy handful on a kart track. Very physical. Driving the Skip Barber Formula car I felt like I could nap between corners.

scottj: I assume you were 2-3 seconds [i]behind[i]the Z06?

The only Cobra I've driven was a 2002 SPF with an original sideoiler and Billboards. I understand the tractor handling analogy now. I was very disappointed, although the look and sound was perfect. I'm hoping the BMW suspension in the BDR will feel better

[Jerry Clayton]

Knowing Scott and knowing shifter karts at tracks like Road America, Daytona, IRP,Mid Ohio, etc---you might have stepped in some--make sure you wipe your feet before you get into the car

[scottj]

Originally Posted by MCA

scottj: I assume you were 2-3 seconds [i]behind[i]the Z06?

The only Cobra I've driven was a 2002 SPF with an original sideoiler and Billboards. I understand the tractor handling analogy now. I was very disappointed, although the look and sound was perfect. I'm hoping the BMW suspension in the BDR will feel better

No, I was quicker than the C6 Z06. The Noble M400 is another track car that runs right with the Z06... at least at Blackhawk.

When I was shopping for a Cobra the highest priority was that the car drove and felt like a modern sports car. The E-M had the Vette suspension option at the time so that is what I bought.

[RedBarchetta]

I believe that driver skill and self-confidence have a lot to do with this particular comparison. I drive my '02 Z06 daily with a much higher confidence factor than with the SPF. Something can be said about the roof over my head, traction control, ABS, better brakes, low profile tires, etc. all contributing to that. The SPF is fun, makes lots of beautiful noises, pulls incredible in all gears and is fairly predictable in the corners with the Goodyear Billboards. But it's not set up to handle freeway exits at more than 2X the posted speed limit like I can do all day long with my bone stock Z06. I simply don't have the pocket book nor the huevos to explore the limits with the Cobra like I (sort of) have with the Z06.

The driving experience is more excillarating in the Z06. The journey is more fun in the Cobra.

But, then again, you can drive the Cobra like you stole it and the exhillaration factor goes waaaaay up.

As always, your mileage may differ.

-Dean

[Clois Harlan]

Scott Johnson is not your average driver. He is one heck of a shoe and could probably run with the best of any cars. Another driver I would put up against a ZO6 is Scott Coyle or Morris Clement. Scott has a 427 stroker if I am not mistaken and Morris runs a highly modified Alum 427 sideoiler. Of course there are other very good drivers of Cobra's that could work a curve but these are just a couple that I can think of off the top of my head. Another thing is that I think all of these guys were running the Hoosier A6 or R6 on 17" or 18" wheels.

Sometimes it's not all about the power but it does make up for some things on a track.

Clois

[951mat]

Your right Clois, Scott isn't your average driver, just as his car is no average Cobra. When he says you'd need a serious cobra, I trust him as his is probably more serious than 98% of ours. But I don't think you need anything that serious to have serious fun with these things at the track. I've seen some backdrafts turn some pretty nice times. I think they were having alot of fun while doing it too.

Mat

[Jerry Clayton]

And Scott has just lightened his total weight by probably close to or maybe more than 400 lbs

[lloyds1]

Originally Posted by MCA

Thanks for all the responses. Pretty much confirms what I suspected. I'm really looking for something a little "less" exciting than the 125cc shifter. That was 15 years ago. The best description I've heard of those karts is "violent". Never did run it at a full sized road course, but what a busy handful on a kart track. Very physical. Driving the Skip Barber Formula car I felt like I could nap between corners.

scottj: I assume you were 2-3 seconds [i]behind[i]the Z06?

The only Cobra I've driven was a 2002 SPF with an original sideoiler and Billboards. I understand the tractor handling analogy now. I was very disappointed, although the look and sound was perfect. I'm hoping the BMW suspension in the BDR will feel better

I have driven a BDR and a SPF and I don't think there is much difference in the handling dept. Look at Dennis Olthoff's SPF options if you want to set your car up for the track. He is a nice guy and a racer so he will speak your language.

Or you can buy an KMP with Penske suspension.........

[Rick 427 Cobra]

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=44148812

[john chesnut]

I like Cobras and I like Vettes! I built my own Cobra replica. I built a steel and aluminum space frame and used the complete suspension, brakes, diff, and LS6 engine from a C5 Vette. Because of the transaxle width of the vette is to wide for the Cobra trans tunnel, I converted the diff to accept a driveshaft and used a Camaro 6 speed tremec. I ran this car at Run n Gun 2 years ago. I am not a driver and have only been on a track at Run n Gun events. I ran lap times of 1 min 17 sec. (This was fast time for street cars._
I built a steel and aluminum space frame with the same wheelbase as the C5 Vette. I installed the complete suspension, brakes, transaxle, and LS6 engine. I shortened the Vettes torque tube and moved the engine 22 inches rearward to achieve a 54% rear weight. I ran the stock Vette hard as rock Run Flat tires. I made a Model T hot rod style body and put it on the chassis. At the Run n Gun track I was running 1 min 11 second times. (This was fast time for street cars, most of the prepared cars, and half of the Unlimited cars.)
The weights are similar, T bucket lighter. But, the wheelbase, track, and center of gravity were much better for handling in my T bucket. I have finished a new body for the car that was inspired by the 1950's Sports Racers. It is low, wide, and swoopy! It should be on the road in a few weeks.
The Cobra is a great car that looks great. But, it has some serious limitations for speed and handling.

[Great Asp]

HP being equal, not much will hang with a Z06 after 130mph, and it certainly would not be a Cobra.

And the stock Z06 is just getting started. LT'sm cat backs, cams and a tune and the Z06 will smoke a stock ZR1.

I hate team bow-tie, but must give respect to the Z06.

But the experience in the Cobra is different just like Red said, and think about it, are you going to get a trophy, or to learn and have fun?

E

[WildBill1965]

There are plenty of upgrades for the SPFs, swaybars, adjustable shocks, different springs also bigger brakes.

[Jamo]

I've lived with two Vettes in autocrossing and track, and run Z06s (C5 and C6) at Spring Mountain. I've run the Kirkham with all manner of other cars (and most other Cobra makes), and I really think the best mfg to start with for a dedicated track Cobra (within reason) is JBL. I could not hold the line John was taking during two events at Fernley (I'm not a bad driver, and John ain't as good as he thinks he is )...though the straights started balancing things out.

...and let's be honest, most folks aren't hitting 150mph for any period of time at club events, etc., so the dreaded high speed concerns in a Cobra simply don't coming into play all that often. Even at Willow Springs, still known as the fastest West Coast road racing course, you've only got two places where you might get a bit nervous (depending on the cross winds). On a tight track, Vettes start getting real damn big...even the physically smaller C6.

I don't know how many times I've watched Archer and Smith reel in GT40s at the Historics. Our Cobras are a damn sight closer in performance to original Cobras (hell...exceeding them in most instances) than Z06s, etc. are to full-on endurance racers. Cobras do have one great advantage...outward visibility. When you're actually driving in some traffic in curves, it becomes as important as anything else.

A damn good driver and a moderately tight track...a well-turned out Cobra will do just fine.

[SimonSays]

Here's my buddy Phil in his Cobra at Spa Francorchamps. Will beat Z06es with one hand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZrZw74rkC4
Near the end you can see him use a handle near the gearlever, that's a lockout to prevent shifting down into the wrong gear

And just to show the car is street legal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPD1yCzO5lM





At Spa, they run an open exhaust... It's errrrr loud