"Properly setup chassis" ???

GUMBALL · #1 (**permalink**) 06-12-2002, 10:58 AM

Racers,

I have very limited track time and ZERO race experience to this point in time. However, I will be attending 3 or 4 events in the months ahead and intend to learn some skills.

Here is the question:

What are you guys doing to your cars to "properly setup your chassis"? I have heard the term "race preped" a thousand times. I am just curious as to what EXACTLY you guys have done to acheive this end. What will I need to do to setup my car for optimal handling?

Please advise.

John

P.S. Cranky................ I know, I know: "Start by removing the BB boat anchor"

Randy Rosenberg · #2 (**permalink**) 06-12-2002, 12:52 PM

Hey John,

I can only offer you three suggestions, in the order that I would use personally.

1. How could I not resist, but to give a plug for Craig Hill @ Top of the Hill Performance in Pleasanton. Craig is the #1 authority on SPF Cobras in, well, the Western USA. He's worked on lots-o-other Cobras, also. And he's preped many different vehicles for track use (as well as show).

2. Since you're in the South Bay Area, you might want to check out Custom Alignment. I believe that they are located in Mt. View, but I may be wrong. I know that they've worked on Cobra's before (email me off line for the names of owners of an SPF and a Hi-Tech). I don't have first hand experience with them, but have heard very good things about them from different sources (Cobra and non-Cobra). I heard that the owner's name is Joe.

3. Roger Kraus in Castrol Valley has a strong reputation for preparing suspensions for track use. My only experience with Roger Kraus was when someone on his team performed a "tech inspection" on my car prior to an open track event. He was very thorough. Additionally, Roger is the guy from whom to buy track tires - I assume that you might be interested in 15" Goodyears...

Hope this helps... BTW, Saturday breakfast is a good place to pick the brains of other locals

Drive safely - have fun,
Randy R...

RACER X #99 · #3 (**permalink**) 06-12-2002, 01:14 PM

John,
You should know from reading my past posts that I never critisize those that go and do track time. The fact that you are going to put your BB on the track already adds Forum HP. From that day on you will be taken seriously when conversing with the track guys. My barbs are almost always aimed at the cruise night and parking lot experts that never go on the track.
As far as advise, I think Randy pretty much covered everything. Take his advise he has been there.

Good luck and welcome to the 10% club.

Cranky

GUMBALL · #4 (**permalink**) 06-12-2002, 01:58 PM

Randy........

Thanks a bunch for the input and contacts. Hope to see you at breakfast again soon as I have plenty of questions for you.

Cranky.........

Thanks for the kind words of advice.

Regards,

John

grumpy · #5 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 11:25 AM

Gumball,
The fellas at SAI Vegas, will go outta their way to get you set up for track time of any kind, they are literally looking for the CSX series owners to get track time and try to make the original marque shine as compared to the "counterfits". Give them a try.

Grumpy

GUMBALL · #6 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 11:58 AM

Grumpy...........

Thanks for the tip. Believe me, I would LOVE to put my car in their hands for a few weeks, if only to make sure we finished the car correctly and soundly. It is just a LONG trip to get it there.

I suppose my question was directed a little more along the lines of SPECIFICS.

I suppose for the track, the engine would need to be preped with an oil cooler, road race pan, rev limiter, catch can, turkey pan, puke tank, and ???????????? What else?

I suppose one would want a battery cut off switch, racing harness, roll bar, and fire extinguisher for safety. What else ????

I suppose the car would handle better with sway bars, race tires, racing brakes, and stiffer springs/shocks. What else??????

Other than racing tires, my car already has most of this stuff. So my question is, "What else can/should be done without altering the originality too much?" (i.e., I prefer to keep the toploader, 3:31 rear, 15-inch wheels, 427FE, etc.)

Can anyone add to this list? What am I missing?

Regards,

John

Randy Rosenberg · #7 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 02:59 PM

Hey John,

I re-read your original post, and I really didn't answer your questions... Sorry.

Here's a link to Nor Cal SAAC Open Track Rules:

http://www.norcal-saac.org/ot/otrules.htm

There's a section on Safety Equipment Requirements. I would view this as a minimum list, and I'd be surprised if your Cobra wasn't already equiped to meet these requirements.

My response was more in line with tuning your Cobra for optimal performance (handling and braking, specifically). I know that Craig and Roger can also make sure that your Cobra meets the minimal requirements for OT, also.

While I have your attention, tuning/equiping your Cobra for track (both for performance and safety) is only 1/2 of the fun. The other 1/2 focuses on driver safety. I could go on and on about this, but here's a good link that covers most of the basic driver safety equipment:

http://www.bellmotorsports.com/equiprec.htm

Hope this helps,
Randy R...

RACER X #99 · #8 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 03:12 PM

John,
One idea, you may want to go for a set of slicks for the track. Most of the guys running slicks on their Cobras are running Goodyear bias ply stock car tires. Available from Roger Krause racing. Realitively cheap about $100.00 each and are a lot more forgiving than Radials. They are real forgiving for us beginners in that you can slide the car around the corners much easier than Radials which offer better grip until you go over the edge than they offer zero grip.
Ask the other "racers" for their tire opinions.

Good luck,
Cranky

Randy Rosenberg · #9 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 04:24 PM

Cranky's right about the Goodyears slicks, and best of all they look soooo gooood!

Keep the rubber side down,
Randy R...

a427sc · #10 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 04:30 PM

John

The advice above is spot on. Personally, I would recommend Hoosier Street TD's to start. A little less grip, a little better to control in slip angle. But Slicks at $100 ea are cheaper, and nothing to be afraid of. You could even check around the local racers for take-offs. The real racers will dump tires after 2 or 3 heat cycles, to stay competitive. Those tires will be fine for you, and more predictable.

BLEED YOUR BRAKES!!!!! Most important. Change over to Castrol LMA at a minimum, Wilwood 550 is better but requires bleeding more often, especially if you still drive your car on the street (it absorbs water faster). NO SILICON FLUID!!! Get a set of Performance Friction race or Super Street pads. Or Hawk or...
Your car will go like he!!, but won't stop worth a damn with regular pads and old fluid. And brakes are a good thing.

Do you have adjustable shocks? Set them on medium hard to start. Do you use the roller style Lemans gas cap? Bring a tennis ball (or a rubber ball that will stopper the inlet) as these caps will spill gas all over on hard left turns. What oil pressure does your FE run? Change your oil to a 20-50W or straight 50W racing oil like Valvoline or Kendall GT-1, and get a high pressure oil filter, rather than the standard one. FE's that live love oil pressure. Go over the car with a wrench and be sure its all tight. If Andy Dunn has had anything to do with your car, put double hose clamps on the radiator hoses (lol). Call Shelby for alignment specs for on track, generally 3/4- 1* neg camber/+4* caster, 1/16 toe out in front, -3/4* camber and 0 or 1/16 toe out in rear if adjustable.

To bring to track: A jack and stands, A basic tool set for your car to do minor adjustments and fixes. Something to lie on when doing the above basic adjustments, and a fender cover. A torque wrench for lugnuts, or a lead hammer and safety wire for knock-offs (check your wheels after every session). DUCT TAPE. General chemicals like gasket cement, carb cleaner, wd-30, for the odd malfunction. Spare plugs, don't have to be new, just good useable ones, just in case. A spare brake light bulb, and fuses too. A GOOD TIRE PRESSURE GAUGE, ACCURATE IN THE 20-35# RANGE FOR BIAS PLY TIRES. Bias tires like to be about 28# hot. White liquid shoe polish (a dab on the edge of the tire will show how much roll over your getting) also good for emergency number marking. Got one of those lightweight pop-up canopy's? A couple of chairs, a large cooler with water and your choice of sports drinks to hydrate you after every session. A bottle of Malox to calm the jitters, and maybe some asprin if you should have a boo-boo.

Most important. Get a good nights sleep, eat well and drink fluids. The one thing you can improve the most in your rookie days is yourself, so take care of you . Be a little scared, very aware, confident in your actions and open to the instructors direction but don't do anything you feel is wrong for you or your car (it's your neck and $ out there).

Welcome to Club Cranky

McFEZ

GUMBALL · #11 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 04:35 PM

Randy and Cranky,

Thanks a bunch for the input. This is EXCATLY the detailed info I'm looking for. Krause is only 30-minutes away. Looks like I'm gonna have a long lunch tomorrow.

My street tires didn't do so well around the track at Willow Springs. "Sliding around the corners" with slicks................... now that sounds fun!!

Regards,

John

GUMBALL · #12 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 05:05 PM

Fez.........

WOW!

What can I say other than thanks A LOT! I just love super detailed information. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the long post as I'll be sure and put it to good use. Come to think of it, I've always thought my brakes sucked! Can't wait to see the difference.

I'm getting jazzed!

Best Regards,

John

Andy Dunn · #13 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by a427sc
If Andy Dunn has had anything to do with your car, put double hose clamps on the radiator hoses (lol)

hee hee haaa

...my ears are burning

to set up a chassis, I would:

1. buy and read Herb Adam's Book. It has some excellent info on setting a car up and is well explained
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...646201-2046214

2. read all the tutorials for free at Long Acre. There are 12 of them on chassis alone
http://www.longacreracing.com/articl...at.asp?CATID=2

Ackerman Effect

Ballast Placement Tips

Bump Steer

Camber Simplified

Caster Simplified

Center of Gravity Height

Chassis Dynamics

Notes on Temperature Averaging

Race Car Preparation

Set Toe Properly

Spring Testing Tips

Toe Simplified

hope this helps

Andy "large collection of radiator hose" Dunn

niles · #14 (**permalink**) 06-18-2002, 05:35 PM

Fez:
Good stuff! A little more explaination on alignment.
I think I can understand a little toe-out on the front-increases ackerman and stops the car from diving in on turn in?

Rear toe-out. I thought that was a no-no. as it steers the rear outside and cause oversteer on turn-in? what am I missing or can we discuss turn dynamic with a little more detail. I'm wanting to understand and get my IRS car setup as close as possible when I arrive at the track. The track sessions never give you enough time to do incremental trials.
thanks
gn

Clois Harlan · #15 (**permalink**) 06-20-2002, 07:18 AM

Things to bring!

Two of the things that John mentioned plus one need to be emphasized a little more. 1. Canopy and 2. Something to lay on while under your car and a couple pieces of wood 2"x10" or 1"
x10" to set under your jack and jack stands (with hot asphalt jack stands and jacks sink into the pavement).

Three weeks ago I was in Omaha at the new Mid America race track (all asphalt pits). I had clutch problems and had to work on the car in the middle of the day (90+ degrees). Canaopy provided shade and I used a piece of 2'x5' foam exercise mat to lay on. Last week I was at the Tulsa event and had to change my fuel pump in the pits where the canopy came in handy as did the mat. Expect the unexpected. Pits are sometimes just pits and not very accomodating.