For Nascar fans only

RACER X #99 · #1 (**permalink**) 02-20-2004, 03:23 PM

How's this for sour grapes,

F1 Team Boss Disses NASCAR: McLaren boss Ron Dennis is no fan of NASCAR, with its lines of growling stock cars rumbling bumper-to-bumper around ovals for hours on end. "You know one single thing that really, really upsets me?," he said last month when the talk turned to Formula One's commercial future. "It's every time that I read about NASCAR. It's just amazing. I mean they are just full up. Every race is full up, they've got more income, more television revenue and it's boring as hell. McLaren chief Ron Dennis doesn't understand why NASCAR is so popular in America. "That machine is working and yet we've got a much better show," he added.(see full ESPN column) better show? a driver wins the pole, he wins the race [9 of 16 won from the pole, worse starting spot to win was 11th], unless he has a mechanical problem or brain fade.(2-20-2004)

ToyCollector · #2 (**permalink**) 02-20-2004, 03:32 PM

And half the position changes take place in the pits in F1. Yawn.

I enjoy the new Grand-AM Daytona Prototype racing, and Speed Challenge.

Mark IV · #3 (**permalink**) 02-20-2004, 03:33 PM

....the "WWF" of motorsports! Oh, wait, I forgot....wrestling is real!!!!!

Dale Jr. got the "call", now that "pretty boy" is out of favor. And after Daytona the "your aero package is unfair to ours" *****in will start!

Rick

RACER X #99 · #4 (**permalink**) 02-20-2004, 05:18 PM

Wow Rick, WWF I never heard that before, how original.

maxrpm · #5 (**permalink**) 02-20-2004, 05:25 PM

Nascar does predetermine who will win a specific race. See what they did to Bill Elliott on the last turn of the last lap at Homestead! They had snipers on the rooftop shoot out his tire so he didn't win. Bobby Labonte was Nascars pick to win that day! Elliott wasn't.

CSX 4027 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-20-2004, 06:38 PM

They can say whatever they want. Nascar is the All American Race Series. Not that I am the biggest Nascar fan but, you get a whole new repect for the guys that drive in traffic when you do it yourself. Also, their used cars make affordable BIG HORSEPOWER SAFE vintage racers that you will have a better chance of walking away from in a wreck. They got me convinced.
I miss the Cobra in the garage. The reality of the safety factor on the track, I don't miss. I would probably get a slab for the street and call it a day.
Formula one? They have not found a way to make it too popular in the US. Heck, very few even can name 10 drivers or better yet, pronounce their names. They have a lot of work to do to make it here. In the 60's, every car nut could rattle off all the names of the drivers at Indy. Those days are gone.

maxrpm · #7 (**permalink**) 02-20-2004, 07:19 PM

Did anyone catch the F1 driver who took a few laps in the Dupont 24 Cup car last year. He was very impressed with the car and how much skill it took to try & control the thing. The performance levels (nmechanical grip/power of an antiquated pushrod engine) without the benefits of high technology is what made the Cup car impressive to him.

Wahoo · #8 (**permalink**) 02-20-2004, 08:39 PM

Hey Max...that 'guy' was none other than the flyin' Columbian, Juan Pablo Montoya. He won the, ahem.....Indy 500

and wiped up the field before going to Williams. I'm a little biased as he's my favourite F1 star. As far as NASCAR goes, it rocks. Whoever says its fixed is full of she-ot. Hey Mark, you going to tell me that someone is going to 'let' someone win over a million bucks???

Ugh. Hey, I'm a racing nut and I don't claim to know all but I follow NASCAR, F1 and ALMS. If NASCAR was so easy then Fellows and Said would wipe everyone at Sonoma??

Anyway, just chaps my butt when someone says the country boys don't have any talent. Tony Stewart has the most titles from different series than anyone in recent memory save for Andretti....whew..I feel better.
regards,
j

maxrpm · #9 (**permalink**) 02-20-2004, 09:10 PM

I intentionally avoided naming the involved drivers.

ToyCollector · #10 (**permalink**) 02-21-2004, 04:40 AM

Wahoo,

Couldn't agree more. After watching "Trading Paint" where Juan Pablo Montoya and Jeff Gordon traded rides, after watching the international run-off between Int'l Rally drivers, F1 guys, NASCAR guy, motorcycle racers, etc., and after watching Tony Stewart kick some SERIOUS ASS at the Daytona 24 hours this year, you have to put guys like Stewart (former IRL or CART champion, former USAC champion, former NASCAR champion) on the top 5% of any good international top driver's list. His PROVEN demonstration of winning in significantly different types of machinery earns my respect of his driving skills.

Mark IV · #11 (**permalink**) 02-21-2004, 06:23 AM

..don't misunderstand, I have GREAT respect for the skills of the drivers in NASCAR. Heck, I even used to be a fan, BUT the constant b!tchen' and "rules adjustments" have made it seem more of a political operation than racing.

Yep, Jr. and Tony rocked at the 24, hey guys, a racer is a racer...he will find a way to do it. I have no doubt that Jr. could get in a champ car and be in the hunt with a couple days of parctice. And I have no doubt that Juan-Pablo could trade paint with Sterling after a little adjustment.

My issue is with the NASCAR orginazation. My "WWF" comment relates to the need they have to control everything down to the sponsor decal placement templates. And the fact that they still call it "stock car racing" when there is really no difference between bodies of the brands. HUmpy Wheeler was qouted as saying the Dodge was "the best Taurus ever built". Take off the headlight and grill decals and I defy even a factory man to distinguish the cars on the track. If they were all the same color no one could tell a Ford from a Chivvie or a Slowpar

Close racing? Yes. Uneeded cautions to make the "show" better? Yes! Uneven officiating? Big yes! (what Dale used to be allowed to do would have gotten Kyle Petty suspended....)

Big kudos to NASCAR however for the way try to keep the drivers accessable to the fan base. Bernie could take a clue from the way the Frances do it.

Rick

maxrpm · #12 (**permalink**) 02-21-2004, 09:46 AM

NASCAR is not the only motorsport guilty of running "cars" that really have nothing to do with production vehicles. How many times have I seen John Force jump out of his racecar & say his Ford Mustang was___ ... the only thing Ford on his cars are the decals, but Ford is willing to foot the bill. Same deal with pro stock, whats 'stock' about them? let me know where I can pick up my HEMI powered Neon! Yes I wish that NASCAR could still race on sunday what we could buy on monday but- I don't think Michael Waltrip would have been able to crawl out from his Napa 'Monte Carlo' if it was a stock production vehicle. Alot of good drivers were killed in the old days running in "real" racecars. At least NASCAR still has teams using their respective sponsors engines.

RACER X #99 · #13 (**permalink**) 02-21-2004, 10:11 AM

I pulled this out of my original post.
"That machine is working and yet we've got a much better show,"

Not according to the number of fans that buy the tickets.

F1 has the most sophisticated and expensive race cars.
F1 has some excellent and talented drivers.

F1 also has some pretty boring races.
That's why Nascar out draws F1 at Indy.
Race fans want to see close competition not a parade.

Tony George learned a lot obout the racing game from Bill France and that's why Cart is almost out of business.

Those F1 folks should start learning from Nascar instead of bashing.

I don't like basketball and hockey so I don't watch. I would suggest the same for those who don't like Nascar.

CSX 4027 · #14 (**permalink**) 02-21-2004, 10:15 AM

You gotta stop by sometime to see the car

PatBuckley · #15 (**permalink**) 02-21-2004, 10:26 AM

Well stated, Cranky.

Turk · #16 (**permalink**) 02-21-2004, 10:37 AM

PatBuckley · #17 (**permalink**) 02-21-2004, 12:17 PM

Well except for the part about basketball.....

RACER X #99 · #18 (**permalink**) 02-26-2004, 07:27 AM

UPDATE: Why has McLaren principal Ron Dennis scheduled a trip to a NASCAR race? The English F1 boss reckons the US-based stock-car oval series is 'boring as hell' but they've got more spectators at the races and more cash flowing-in. He told Reuters: "[NASCAR] is working and yet we've got a much better show. If something is as successful as that then you'd be a fool if you didn't go and try to understand what the ingredients are." Most F1 pundits are dismissive of the stock-car technology but Dennis and managing director Martin Whitmarsh intend to keep a keen-eye on the circus.(F1-Live site), doesn't say what race Dennis will attend or when.(2-24-2004)

From www.jayski.com site

Wahoo · #19 (**permalink**) 02-26-2004, 07:35 AM

F1 has alienated some many fans, I think they are needing to
do some stateside p.r. in an attempt to get the attendance and fan participation back. The pit walk last year at Indy was a good idea. Unfortunately, the drivers only stayed for a brief moment. F1 is more flash and cash than being one of the ppl. like Nascar. The good ole boys of Nascar don't claim to be anything other than a fortunate soul that gets to drive...F1 drivers seem to practive the wanker-'tude. I follow both.

rdorman · #20 (**permalink**) 02-26-2004, 07:44 AM

His comments where sounding a bit jelious! A bit of what the heck is wrong with us. I love F1. Heck, I just love racing period. I just can't stay away from the incredable capabilities of the F1 series. But, I am also a Nascar fan (Daytona was great for me because my two favorites came in one and two

). Indy racing series and cart have left me a bit cold since the split. And those rally guys!!!!!

I recall the Montoya and Gordon(?) swap. Both where impressed. Seems to me Gordon was like where do I get one of these!

For my money though, F1 drivers are amongst the finest in the world on pavement on four wheels. Wouldn't it be great to see Montoya run some Nascar races and Gordon run some F1?

Rick