Up grading the disc brakes

[Skully]

Any good ideas on what make of brakes are good , better , and best.

[vettestr]

Originally Posted by Skully

Any good ideas on what make of brakes are good , better , and best.

Skully,
Give us a little more info. Are there any problems you are specifically trying to correct or just want to upgrade? What components do you have now and how far do you want to go? How will the car be driven most of the time?

[mikiec]

Also,

Do the brakes currently fade? Do they lockup? Pedal travel etc..

Mike

[Skully]

In braking , I would like to know that in a panic stop I can stop far enough back of the car that just cut me off. It seems here in AZ, the people put their turn signal on to let you know where they came from. I have Cobra brakes and I would like to get a better brake system, bigger rotors and calipers, maybe a four piston system. Normal everyday driving , maybe more performance and handling with better shocks. I have Bilstein shocks and it has a bum steer. What does the bum steer do for the car?

[AZ Pete]

Skully, ask the same question on www.FFCobra.com and you'll get lots of knowledgable advice from guys with Mk III experience. Or, search the archives. Or, see the Brake & Suspension Forum of FFCobra.
Personally I love ABS for avoiding those ***holes who pull out!
Pete

[Mulv]

Brakes? Here are the rankings:

1.Alcon bar none , the best there is
2. AP virtually as good like 99%
3.Brembo
4.Baer
5. and a distant at that 5 Wilwood.
6. Stock Mustang brakes

You didn't mention your budget or if you want a 4 wheel upgrade. For front and rear in an Alcon Super Kit you should be able to do it easily for $6-7K depending on the caliper and rotor combo. Alcons properly set up will cause the tears in your eyes to hit the inside of the windshield. AP's will be about $6,000 and Brembo probably mid 5's. You can put the Baer brakes with the Corvette calipers on the front for about $2500 I would think. Wilwoods are not in this league but will still stop better than the Mustang brakes you are probably using.

You can go to ABS but remember that ABS does not give the shortest stopping distance in a road car, it allows you to steer away from trouble without locking up the wheels and skidding. In race cars ABS is calibrated differently and allows for the shortest stopping distance in the dry. ABS is useless for short stops on wet or sand covered roads - you are better to modulate the brakes yourself which is why race cars have a switch on the steering wheel to kill the ABS..

A lot of the stopping in a panic situation comes down to tire coefficient of friction, generally a tire with a lower life rating will be stickier and stop shorter..

Also, if you do not want to spend much money, get some more aggressive pads for the calipers you have now and some powerslot rotors. You can do that for about $500-...

[MaSnaka]

For what it's worth I just went through a brake issue and changing the pedal ratio made a world of difference for me. My first thought was bigger rotors but got to thinking that the brakes I have (9" rotors up front and 10" drums in back) worked on a street driven car that outweights a Cobra by 1000 lbs. My pedal box as it was, was set up for a booster for the master cylinder which I did not have. I changed the pivot for a manual brake ratio and I gotta say they feel and work much better. I had also read other posts on the issue where bigger rotors alone still did not solve the brake problems. If your mind is already made up, go for the bigger better brakes but make sure you master and pedal are set up properly too.

John

[Fitz]

I had Baer on my first cobra and seem to like the 6 piston Wilwood on current cobra a bit better. Of course they are on 18" wheels and Michelin PS2s. (Next set I am going back to Somotomos (cheaper and just as sticky) Seem to go around corner very well and stop on a dime. Most of these cars will stop right now but you better have your seat belt on..

[Gordon Levy]

Based on my extensive track experience there are pluses and minuses about each that have been listed.
The worst listed was the PBR's. I have gone into to many turns and had those give up. Do a google search on Racing PBR brakes and you will see many that agree.
Ive also killed the Brembo and had Alcon rotors explode at the track. Never fun. I have never had an issue with AP but the pad selection is limited and expensive. That goes for Alcon also. The other thing to concider is price. I think both alcon and AP as well as Brembo are way over priced for what you are getting.
That leaves the Wilwood stuff. I am a dealer and one of the reasons is I have never killed their brake at the track. I have the 13" 6 piston front and 12" 4 piston rear on my Race Mustang and I can outbrake anyone. They are easy to service, have over 100 different pad compounds available from pretty much any pad manufacturer and they are incredibly cost effective. In other words you get way more for the money.
I also have a 6 piston system that we designed that will fit under your Halibrand wheel. Non of the others except the PBR's will do that.

[bobcowan]

I originally built my car with stock single piston calipers in the front, and stock T-bird discs/calipers in the back. Braking was excellent, and easily controllable. On the street I never wished for more brake, only more traction. With stock Mustang brakes, you should be able to easily lock the tires at any speed less than about 45mph or so.

On the track..........

The point is, if you have stock brakes and they don't work well, there's a problem with the set up, not the parts choice. Rather than simply throwing parts at it, you should try and figure out what the problem is.

I'v done pretty extensive reading over the years, because this is a common problem. Do a search on any cobra board and you'll find hours of reading. The two main culprits are 1. wrong pedal ratio, and 2. wrong MC bore size. Check those two things out first, and you'll be time and money ahead.

[Skully]

How do you change the pedal ratio, and how do you know it is wrong, and the MC bore size.

[Excaliber]

The FIRST response from Skully about what he wanted was a "panic stop" situation. For that you would want organic brake pads, not metallic or high temp pads. The later usually work best after they get some "heat" in them. Another concern would be: power or manual brakes? If manual then organic for dam sure on a cold morning with cold brakes especially. The pedal pressure required for a panic stop goes up substantially as you move from organic to metallic to race pads.

IF you can "lock up" the brakes with ONE piston calipers why do you need SIX piston calipers? "Modulation", a better "feel" for impending lockup without actually locking up the wheels. Doesn't mean much in a panic mode stop though, your likely going to lock them up anyway. Bigger brakes will last longer, on the track, not necessarily a big deal on the highway. OK, unless your pulling a trailer down a long steep grade (unlikely with a Cobra).

So you need to find the right balance here between full blown race mode and reasonable street driving mode.

Myself, I switching out to high temperature race pads soon. And I have MANUAL brakes! I'll have to be darn careful in the morning, on the street, until those brakes get some heat in them. I will have a lot more pedal pressure to deal with as well. BUT, I'll be doing enough track work this summer that I need to prep more for the track, less for the street.

"Bum Steer"??? HA HA HA, I think you mean "bump steer", which is good to have on the TRACK, ok, it's nice to have on the street as well, but it's not a huge deal (usually, depends on the car and it's factory setup). Some need it more than others.

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by Skully

How do you change the pedal ratio, and how do you know it is wrong, and the MC bore size.

Here's an excellent article on both subjects. With pictures!

http://www.hotrodheaven.com/tech/brakes/brakes6.htm

[vettestr]

Bob C,
You make a good point about a stock setup working properly being able to simply lock the wheels.

A quick side story about too much pressure... We use C3 Corvette calipers on all 4 wheels. They get stainless inserts during the rebuild/exchange and last forever.

I got a phone call that the calipers I sent out were bad, they had leaks on 3 of the 4 calipers. I asked him to send them all back and overnighted 4 replacements even though the shipping was an arm and leg. The next day he called and said the new ones were bad too as the pistons blew right out of the caliper body and so did the stainless sleeves. I am thinking NO WAY but did not have the old ones back yet to see for myself.
Turned out he modified the system to get more brake by changing the bore diameters and pedal ratio. I sent him a gauge to check deadhead pressures and instead of 1150 PSI he had 2580 PSI. He went from a 7/1 pedal to a 9/1 ratio and used an 1 1/8 bore instead of the 5/8" slave bore..... bigger is not always better.

[Skully]

Has anyone used Hawk or Green Stuff brake pads? What was the cost and did they perform better than standard pads?

[bobcowan]

I'v tried Hawk pads on a couple of vehicles. They're better than stock replacements, or store brand economy versions. But they're nothing to get excited about.