New toy

[dave from mesa]

Mikie, Mikie, Mikie. Hopefully you will shoot off a bench. 2" @ 50 yds with open sights ain't no easy feat.
You still didn't say how you sized the 45 Colt without dies. 45 acp is tapered 45 colt is straight walled.

[vettestr]

Tinny beep beep

[mikiec]

Dave,

I have not sized the 45colt brass, just the 45acp.

[mikiec]

Jeff, Tinny is sleeping. He needs alot of it.

[dave from mesa]

Originally Posted by mikiec

Dave,

I have not sized the 45colt brass, just the 45acp.

Guess I miss-read post # 53

[mikiec]

The cure to your problem is found in Judy's cookies.

[Danr55]

Mikie, I have 45LC dies if you want to borrow them. Let me know.

[mikiec]

Thanks Dan. I'm going to the gun show this Saturday, I hve a couple of items to buy. One of them is a set of 45 colt dies .

Mike

[Danr55]

OK.. If you ever decide you need some strange caliber dies, check with me before you spend money. I've got about 245 different sets.

[mikiec]

Will do. Thanks.

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by vettestr

Tinny beep beep

all in due course. tin-man

[cobish]

[quote=dave from mesa;1150005]Mikie, Mikie, Mikie. Hopefully you will shoot off a bench. 2" @ 50 yds with open sights ain't no easy feat.

Interesting article for all you marksmen


To start out, I want to make a few clarifications...

First off, I would define a "headshot" as a reliable hit (EVERY TIME) on a 5-6" target at whatever given range you're talking about. A "headshot" proposition is REALLY a "brain shot", so we're talking about a 6" x 6" square on the front of the forehead, or a 6" x 6" square over the temple area.

Secondly, without trying to be a jerk and correct your terminology, I assume by "sniper rifle", you're refering to a mobile weapon system like the M-24 (Marine) or 40x (Army) that the military issues to Snipers/sharpshooters/Designated Marksmen, or a civilian equivalent, like the Remington 700. Sniper rifles are both accurate as well as mobile, which can be duplicated by, or EXCEEDED by civilian weapons available. So whether it's owned by, issued to, or held by a "military sniper" is irrelevant... When you say "sniper rifle", it's understood to mean a .30caliber accurized bolt action rifle.

So those 2 things locked down, then my answer is that a trained marksman should be able to reliably deliver a "headshot" with a "sniper rifle equivalent" to 1,000-1,200yrds.

Trained marksmen using precision equipment, with accurate and current environmental information should be able to deliver a 1/2MOA hit (i.e. 1/2" at 100yrds, or 5" at 1,000yrds) or better. A 5-6" head shot target would be 1/2MOA at 1,000-1,200yrds, which would be pressing the range of the "normal, exceptionally trained shooter".

There are, of course, legendary shots that have been made by military snipers that far exceed this expectation, but those are the exception, not the rule. In general, a 1/2MOA long range shooter is exceptional, so delivering, for example, a headshot at 2,000yrds (0.3MOA) is absolutely possible, but absolutely PHENOMENAL.

That said, I want to comment on Jack of all Trade's post. I don't normally do this, but I'm calling bullsh*t...

Jack of all trades claims he can make 12" shots at 350yrds (320m) with a Marlin 925R .22lr and a Barska 4-32x44mm scope. No, with the right equipment and training, this shot isn't impossible, but with his equipment and his apparent knowledge, I'd say NO, HE IS NOT CAPABLE OF IT.

First off, the rifle: The Marlin 925R is a fine weapon, but it is NOT a precision rifle, nor can it be made to be. Besides recrowning the muzzle, tuning the trigger, bedding the action, and free floating the barre, there isn't much you can do to accurize the 925. Even those changes (which would cost as much as the rifle) would not turn the modest 925R into a precision rifle. It's a light barreled budget rifle, NOT a precision weapon. The 925R in my experience will shoot between 1-1.5" groups at 50yrds off a bench (2-3MOA). However, when you extend the range, that 2-3MOA quickly turns into 5-6MOA, especially when you talk about 300-400yrds.

So the rifle is not LIKELY capable of this level of accuracy...

Secondly, the scope: Barska does not, and NEVER HAS, offered a 4-32x44mm scope (I called customer service to confirm). Even if it was a typo and he meant to put 8-32x, the scope is still not capable of making that shot. Barska has never offered a 8-32x scope with enough internal adjustment to allow a .22lr to shoot 400yrds. The maximum internal adjustment for these scopes is 40MOA TOTAL, with 20MOA below line. At 350yrds, the .22lr will have a total drop of 263" at 350yrds, which is 75MOA, so the scope is not able to adjust far enough to reach the 350yrds. WHICH MEANS Jack would have to make a hold over shot by aiming the cross hairs above the target to account for the drop. HOWEVER, the hold over is 22ft. The field of view for the 8-32x is 13-33ft TOTAL, so 6.5-16.5ft below line. This means the TARGET WOULD NOT BE VISIBLE IN THE SCOPE. So Jack would have to hold over 22ft with less than a 5% error (12" out of 22ft) on a target he can't even see.

So this scope is NOT capable of making this shot possible...

Finally, onto the shooter. There are holes in his own story that prove that he's full of it. He claimes to have a max range of 320m for a 12" target (3.4MOA), and a max range of 400m for a 2.5ft x 6ft target (6.8MOA). A skilled shooter would NOT increase group size by 100% with only a 20% increase in range. If you could really shoot 3.4MOA at 320m, then you could d*mn sure shoot better than 6.8MOA at 400m.

Making that shot IS possible, if you have a precision rifle, a highly adjustable scope, and a high level of marksmanship training, but No, I do not for one second believe that Jack of All Trades is capable of making those shots.

Source(s):

I'm a precision gun builder, an avid precision rifle shooter, and 1,000yrd competitor...

[Bob Broberg SPF667 460BB]

TMI

AZ Bob

[Car Nut]

So Coby, are you trying to tell me my pellet gun won't make those consistant head shots at 1500 yards?

Jack will be so disappointed.

[AL427SBF]

Cobish, there's room for you in my foxhole if we ever have to dig in lol. Refreshing to hear someone stand up who is versed in the subject set the record straight. IMO we could use more of that with some of the "cobra" advice posted here. I'm a moron when it comes to performance motors, so I read most of the "tech advice" type posts, and if it pertains to my build I'll follow up with some research. Not often is the info I've read completely sound, but when it is - it's from one of a select few members, and I can count them on 1 hand. So kudos to you for speaking up when your BS filter went off

[Danr55]

Cobish, I agree with everything you say except personnally I prefer either 6.5mm or 8mm for truly precision work at distance and for heavy work, 338 or .50 cal. Oh, and I never met a rifle with a floated barrel that wouldn't shoot better with a pressure pointed barrel. I know that's a touchy subject with some people, but it just works better for me and all of the rifles I've built.

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by mikiec

I purchased the Lee 50th anniversary kit. I have dies for my 45ACP.need to get a set for the 45Colt. Figured I would start with a single stage press at this point. If I enjoy it I can move up to a multi-stage.

Tinny, OK your on. $100.00

Mikie, congratulations take all the time you need and lets see how well you do, rememeber pictures. Cheers, tin-man,

[tin-man]

[quote=cobish;1150204]

Originally Posted by dave from mesa

Mikie, Mikie, Mikie. Hopefully you will shoot off a bench. 2" @ 50 yds with open sights ain't no easy feat.

Interesting article for all you marksmen


To start out, I want to make a few clarifications...

First off, I would define a "headshot" as a reliable hit (EVERY TIME) on a 5-6" target at whatever given range you're talking about. A "headshot" proposition is REALLY a "brain shot", so we're talking about a 6" x 6" square on the front of the forehead, or a 6" x 6" square over the temple area.

Secondly, without trying to be a jerk and correct your terminology, I assume by "sniper rifle", you're refering to a mobile weapon system like the M-24 (Marine) or 40x (Army) that the military issues to Snipers/sharpshooters/Designated Marksmen, or a civilian equivalent, like the Remington 700. Sniper rifles are both accurate as well as mobile, which can be duplicated by, or EXCEEDED by civilian weapons available. So whether it's owned by, issued to, or held by a "military sniper" is irrelevant... When you say "sniper rifle", it's understood to mean a .30caliber accurized bolt action rifle.

So those 2 things locked down, then my answer is that a trained marksman should be able to reliably deliver a "headshot" with a "sniper rifle equivalent" to 1,000-1,200yrds.

Trained marksmen using precision equipment, with accurate and current environmental information should be able to deliver a 1/2MOA hit (i.e. 1/2" at 100yrds, or 5" at 1,000yrds) or better. A 5-6" head shot target would be 1/2MOA at 1,000-1,200yrds, which would be pressing the range of the "normal, exceptionally trained shooter".

There are, of course, legendary shots that have been made by military snipers that far exceed this expectation, but those are the exception, not the rule. In general, a 1/2MOA long range shooter is exceptional, so delivering, for example, a headshot at 2,000yrds (0.3MOA) is absolutely possible, but absolutely PHENOMENAL.

That said, I want to comment on Jack of all Trade's post. I don't normally do this, but I'm calling bullsh*t...

Jack of all trades claims he can make 12" shots at 350yrds (320m) with a Marlin 925R .22lr and a Barska 4-32x44mm scope. No, with the right equipment and training, this shot isn't impossible, but with his equipment and his apparent knowledge, I'd say NO, HE IS NOT CAPABLE OF IT.

First off, the rifle: The Marlin 925R is a fine weapon, but it is NOT a precision rifle, nor can it be made to be. Besides recrowning the muzzle, tuning the trigger, bedding the action, and free floating the barre, there isn't much you can do to accurize the 925. Even those changes (which would cost as much as the rifle) would not turn the modest 925R into a precision rifle. It's a light barreled budget rifle, NOT a precision weapon. The 925R in my experience will shoot between 1-1.5" groups at 50yrds off a bench (2-3MOA). However, when you extend the range, that 2-3MOA quickly turns into 5-6MOA, especially when you talk about 300-400yrds.

So the rifle is not LIKELY capable of this level of accuracy...

Secondly, the scope: Barska does not, and NEVER HAS, offered a 4-32x44mm scope (I called customer service to confirm). Even if it was a typo and he meant to put 8-32x, the scope is still not capable of making that shot. Barska has never offered a 8-32x scope with enough internal adjustment to allow a .22lr to shoot 400yrds. The maximum internal adjustment for these scopes is 40MOA TOTAL, with 20MOA below line. At 350yrds, the .22lr will have a total drop of 263" at 350yrds, which is 75MOA, so the scope is not able to adjust far enough to reach the 350yrds. WHICH MEANS Jack would have to make a hold over shot by aiming the cross hairs above the target to account for the drop. HOWEVER, the hold over is 22ft. The field of view for the 8-32x is 13-33ft TOTAL, so 6.5-16.5ft below line. This means the TARGET WOULD NOT BE VISIBLE IN THE SCOPE. So Jack would have to hold over 22ft with less than a 5% error (12" out of 22ft) on a target he can't even see.

So this scope is NOT capable of making this shot possible...

Finally, onto the shooter. There are holes in his own story that prove that he's full of it. He claimes to have a max range of 320m for a 12" target (3.4MOA), and a max range of 400m for a 2.5ft x 6ft target (6.8MOA). A skilled shooter would NOT increase group size by 100% with only a 20% increase in range. If you could really shoot 3.4MOA at 320m, then you could d*mn sure shoot better than 6.8MOA at 400m.

Making that shot IS possible, if you have a precision rifle, a highly adjustable scope, and a high level of marksmanship training, but No, I do not for one second believe that Jack of All Trades is capable of making those shots.

Source(s):

I'm a precision gun builder, an avid precision rifle shooter, and 1,000yrd competitor...

Whoever wrote it knows his stuff, my compliments. Cobish, thanks for sharing.
tin-man

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Cobish, there's room for you in my foxhole if we ever have to dig in lol. Refreshing to hear someone stand up who is versed in the subject set the record straight. IMO we could use more of that with some of the "cobra" advice posted here. I'm a moron when it comes to performance motors, so I read most of the "tech advice" type posts, and if it pertains to my build I'll follow up with some research. Not often is the info I've read completely sound, but when it is - it's from one of a select few members, and I can count them on 1 hand. So kudos to you for speaking up when your BS filter went off

AL427SBF,err, hmmm Cobish copied a previous post that was very well written and factual and was in response to some do-dah making claims for his prowess with a Marlin and was all together different to what we are discussing here on this thread.

Gotta remember, Mikie just purchased a new toy and I am challenging him to excel at what could arguably be a difficult shot and I am putting my money where my mouth is to see how well he does. I will be first in line to congratulate him when he succeeds. Now as to my claim with my Ruger on one inch circles, well, that's another bet, for another time. Dig it? tin-man

[Car Nut]

My BS meter just broke.

Mikie, good luck on your "challenge".