Fast Cars IFS

[Rebel1]

Don, Scotty looks a little worried in that last pic.

[lal Naja]

Don, I'm not able to see any photos. Anyway I do have some comments after seeing your Flickr album.

One photo shows the fiberglass 'Shirt' that covers the MGB IFS. I had to cut a small section out of the left rear corner for the steering shaft to connect from Ted's Rack to the MGB column. It is a triangular shaped section about 100mm high and in proportion it resembles a 30-60-90 Set square. Your 'shirt' is not shaped the same as mine so yours may be different. And Ted's 2" wider unit may fit a little different to mine.

After looking at photos of your (Ted's) IFS. And I know you got the 2" wider unit. I'm not able to tell what is wider. Are just the 'A' arms longer by an inch? Did he move the shock tower to a different location so that it will not bind with your chassis? So I'm not clear on this.

I totally re-engineered the MGB column using stainless steel tubing with custom machined UHMWMDS shoulder bushes at both ends, A Bronze thrust washer for the turn signal canceling pin to ride against and locking collar at the bottom end. You can see a picture in my Album here on the forum. EDITED 2015. The UHMWMDS was a BAD choice for the steering column. As the engine bay heated up the inner steering shaft would jamb tight and steering became downright dangerous. See my Facebook photo album which has a lot more photographs of this work.

The MGB column is poorly designed (Junk) with an ill-fitting split plastic bush at the steering wheel end and a felt bush (yes Felt, Union hat makers needed work I guess) at the universal joint end. I could pull the steering wheel in and out more than 3/8" even after my first rebuild to MGB specs. I pulled/pushed the column in and out and after turning the wheel a couple of times I mangled a new turn signal switch/horn contact finger.

The column is not too much of a problem in the MGB as it fits directly from column to Rack with one universal. For the Cobra an intermediate shaft is used with two universals this setup can be pulled and everything gets longer. This slop I'm sure, contributes to inaccurate steering.

Since I wrote this post in 2011 I have totally modified the way the MGB steering column connects to the FastCars IFS. I Connect directly from the MGB to the FastCars IFS with one sliding DD steering intermediate shaft. Also makes removing the IFS or the steering column MUCH MUCH easier. This is the only way to go!!!

Regards,

Arthur

[Donunder]

The pics are up on my screen Arthur.
"Shirt?" I meant to say skirt.
I think the extra width is in the A arms. I'll check when we have it all out.

[Donunder]

OK-- a couple of things.

I'll sort out my Flickr pages so that future pics will stay up...

A quick heads-up regarding my IFS...
I'm going through a very frustrating time here. I went away for a short break just after the IFS arrived and I missed a "window of opportunity" to get on with the instal.

My mate Scott at Venom who attended to all the compliance work for the Arntz runs a one man show and just now he is swamped with work, some of it rather urgent. He has a couple of customer road builds on the go which have gone onto the back burner while he is trying to get through some last minute work for other customers relating to our imminent Cobra Nationals. He is also plugging a turboed 4 litre Lexus motor into his own track car for the Nationals.

Needless to say, workshop space and time is at a premium and my job is down the priority list while the Nationals work takes precedence -- which is fair enough. As soon as Scott can put a couple of days aside for Arnie, things will start to happen.

[PDUB]

I thought it was only 4-bolts that hold that thing in there and away you go Don!

I can't wait to hear how it works... I'm sure it is frustrating you as you wait...

Did you drive it with the old front end?

[Donunder]

If it were a four bolt job it would have been done by now. Have a look at some of lal Naja's posts to see what conceivably can be involved. I've long since learned that there ain't no such thing as a straight-forward job, and if I'm playing about with brakes and steering, I'm pretty keen to make sure it's done well!

We'll be taking our time and making sure the installation is spot on, and there'll be some more work relating to the steering column to be attended to too. A new front sway bar has to be fabricated. The original radiator is being replaced with an alloy one and the original shocks in back will be upgraded to match the all-new gear in front. Anything else that could benefit from a tidy-up while we're under there will be looked after. It's for these reasons that I'm not rushing Scott to do this job while he's up to his eyeballs attending to various racecars' preparation for the Nationals.

Yes I have been driving the car since Christmas-floods permitting- with the standard MGB front end. The steering is a little heavy at low speeds but still nice and direct. The brakes? Well the brakes are not shall we say up to modern standards. I've had to adjust my braking distances a bit -- not that I'm a demon late braker--it's just that Arnie is more leisurely in the braking department now than hopefully she will be when the Wilwoods are doing their thing up front.

Soon, soon...

[lal Naja]

Don, Season's greetings to you too.

One other thing to check. If your previous steering setup was MGB steering column to MGB steering rack with the short 8" long intermediate shaft + two universal joints. With no binding.

And now you have MGB Steering column to FastCars rack and the setup is binding.
1: Are you connecting directly from MBG Steering to Fast cars with one new custom length intermediate shaft + 2 universal joints.

2: Are you using old 8" intermediate shaft and another custom intermediate shaft + 1 more universal. Total 3 universals

3: Are the universals properly phased?

EDITED 2015. I changed my intermediate shaft between the MGB column and the FastCars IFS.. I used a DD sliding shaft. Highly recommend this method as the steering is BEAUTIFUL and she goes where you point her.

Arthur

[Donunder]

Arthur,
PM sent.

[lal Naja]

Hello Don.....Anything to report?

I decided to bite the bullet and modify my Butler brake pedal and install a remote brake bias adjuster. It has turned out to be pretty easy so far. I'll have the brake box back in the car by Sunday. Then I'll be figuring the best option on how to run the cable and where to install the adjusting knob in the cockpit.

Hope all else is well.

Arthur

[Donunder]

Well after what seems an eternity and after many requests I’ve finally accepted that try as I might, the guy, Peter, who installed my Fast Cars front end for me either can’t or won’t forward me the photos he took of the work in progress. Pity, because I’m otherwise extremely happy with the amount of thought and effort he put into this project and the quality of his work, but I really would have liked a photo of the original MGB front end sitting next to the new one at the start of proceedings, leading on to shots of “stuff happening”. Maybe he’ll get around to sending them at some time but for now I’ve just taken a few shots of the completed job.

So, to recap, the Fast Cars IFS is now in place, the brakes are working properly after a fair bit of trial and error with the balance bar and wondering if we needed to go to smaller or larger master cylinders (we didn’t), the front sway bar which initially looked like a snow plough and was easily the lowest point on the car has now been “flipped” and new mounting linkages made so that it’s now pointing up and out of the way, and most importantly the steering which was causing all sorts of grief is now working perfectly. While everything was apart a new alloy radiator went in because the old one was weeping terribly and had been repaired at least once before, so the decision to replace it was an easy one.

Here’s the sway bar upside-down and now well up out of the road.


The Fast Cars IFS was originally made for MGB and other British sports car V8 conversions. The Cobra version is basically the same only 2” wider. The IFS wouldn’t fit straight up into my car because the main chassis runners fouled it slightly. Question. To notch the chassis or the IFS? Answer. Take a very small piece out of each side of the IFS and up she goes. (Before you ask, this is one of the things I want to get clear photos of. Pete showed me where he had removed the material and said he’d be taking shots of it for me but now that it’s installed it’s not possible to show you properly.)

Solid brake lines are fabricated


and some lovely stainless flexible lines complete the job,


apart from the installation of a proportioning valve, supplied by Fast Cars, because the master cylinders are mounted under the floor and thus below the bleed nipples.


The brake assembly fits snugly into the original 15” wheels.




The master cylinder area presented problems of its own. There was an awful moment when I was taking the car for its first test run, and almost ran up the back of a little BMW, despite driving very cautiously and giving myself plenty of braking/stopping distance. The brakes were almost totally non-operational!!! After my heart rate returned to normal I became bloody annoyed. I remember thinking that we’ve just installed an IFS that’s about eighty pounds lighter than the old MGB unit, the ancient Girling system has been replaced by state of the art Wilwood callipers and vented discs, so with a lighter front end and far superior brakes, why the hell wasn’t the thing on point of lock-up instead of having next to no stopping power??!!! There were no leaks. We’d used the pads Fast Cars had supplied. Back up on the hoist, remove the cover over the master cylinders and there we find the balance bar is 1) loose! and 2) set so that what we figure is 80% of the braking effort is going to the back brakes! Pete then basically moved the balance bar as far to the left as it would go without fouling the clutch master cylinder and the problem was solved.

Here are the Arntz underfloor master cylinders. It's a two person job bleeding the brakes and a hoist is almost essential.


I then took the precaution of bedding in the brakes pretty thoroughly over a fifteen mile run which brought to light the biggest and most perplexing problem of the entire job….

I’m going from my far from reliable memory here and some day if I can get on to Pete again I’ll try to confirm what the procedure was but…. I remember driving the car for the first time out on the highway where I required it to behave like a normal car and basically point straight ahead unless asked to do otherwise. Up ‘til now I’d been taking it for short runs “around the block” with almost constant steering input. I’d noticed that it seemed much more direct than before but I hadn’t taken too much notice of it--in fact I’d thought it a good thing! On the first highway run the car would not steer straight and alarmingly it would not self-centre. It would say point left and then with very minimal steering correction it would go right, past centre, and keep going right. If I ever managed to get it pointing straight ahead momentarily and relax my grip on the wheel, it would almost instantly head off, either left or right, of its own accord. There was no steering feeling at dead ahead at all and the problem was exacerbated by its having a certain degree of “stiction” or binding at just either side of dead ahead.
The Fast Cars IFS steering rack comes with a universal attached to a very short shaft with a male spline. It is necessary to fabricate a joining piece of steering shaft with the correct (different at each end) splines to connect up with the middle universal joint. This is where my memory becomes hazy but after considering and then rejecting the idea that the rack itself could be binding, Pete deduced that it was the steering’s three universal joints that were binding due to their not being phased properly. He tried disconnecting the unis and refastening them in all manner of positions, depending on whose advice we were listening to at the time, until in the end he decided to replace the original, and sloppy, universal at the top of the shaft, ditch the intermediate one altogether, and have a new shaft made to run directly from the new uni at the top down to the uni on the steering rack. Thank goodness the Arntz motor is set so far back. The new direct-route steering shaft misses the front of the block by about two inches. The steering is now nicely weighted, the new rack comes with gearing that’s just right, and mercifully the car now points and self-centres beautifully!

I’d like to say that all of these little adventures are in no way attributable to the Fast Cars product. Ted Lathrop produces a first class IFS that has been proven over many years. It’s always a bit of a gamble dealing with somebody on the other side of the world, more so when their product is reasonably expensive and is so important to the efficient and safe running of your car – well I think that steering and braking are reasonably important! My son and I had done our homework on this product before deciding to go ahead with the purchase and Ted was most approachable and helpful in my initial inquiries. He kept me up to date with the progress of “my” IFS, commiserated with me when his work load caused a short delay and arranged prompt shipping when it was ready to go. I can thoroughly recommend Fast Cars and their product. Everything from disc to disc is included in the price. The unit arrived exactly as described and very firmly packaged. The only thing you have to sort out is the steering shaft and this obviously varies from car to car.

Finally here’s my good mate Scott (OzVenom) giving the Jag rear end some TLC while I play photographer up the front.


I’m sorry that this report will be found wanting by some of you. I’ll keep trying to get hold of those progress pics and if I do, they’ll be up here pronto together with any further useful technical information about the installation I can glean from Pete.

[Donunder]

Here's another pic of the IFS mounted in place looking up from below.

[lal Naja]

Looks like it belongs. Thanks for the update and the photos.

[Shelby Dave]

Brain just directed me to this 'ol thread.
I just ordered a Fast Cars front IFS assembly 2" wider for my '89 Bennett Cobra.
Thanks for all of the info you guys put into this conversation. I'll be referring back to it as I go along.

[joyridin']

From what I read on their web site, FAST Cars has a new owner, although I suspect he was building them all along.

I put one in my Arntz a year ago. You will love it.

[lal Naja]

Congratulations Shelby Dave. I'm guessing your Bennett Cobra has an MGB IFS. And with that in mind it should be a relatively easy install.

A MUST DO as far as I am concerned, and that is to connect the MGB steering column to the FastCars IFS with one just one intermediate shaft. I monkeyed around with using a splined shaft and now I have used a DD sliding shaft to make this connection. See my Facebook photo album on how I built my Cobra and you will see detail photos of this. Click on my facebook link by my avatar.

Good luck with your install.

Fast cars offers the IFS 2" wider. Does anyone know where it is made wider. Is the K member wider and have the shock towers also been moved outward. Or, are the wishbones made 1" longer? If just the wishbones are made longer then all Butler frames will still need to be notched to make space for the towers, or the towers will need to have the inner back edges trimmed and welded.

[lal Naja]

Looking for updates on your FastCars IFS.

I've put 3800 miles on my IFS and all is good but for one thing. And that is it takes more force than I like to make an initial turn-in, either left or right. I'm thinking It may be due to the caster angle being a little too much and I'm thinking about reducing caster a little and see if there is a reduction in the force needed. Other than that steering is very responsive on street or highway.

I also have 10" wide tires on the front and that results in a rather wide scrub patch which is not central to the theoretical kingpin inclination.

What are your findings and have you experienced the same thing. Would love to know.

[Donunder]

All good from my end!

Apart from the steering being a little heavy at parking speeds, the car is a joy to drive. I'm running 255 series tyres up front and they seem to suit the requirements of the Fast steering perfectly. Initially I wondered at the wisdom of proceeding with this modification seeing that a lot of Arntz owners have chosen to keep the original MGB front end without encountering any major troubles, but I'm now very content that I made the correct decision to jettison the heavier BMC product. Whether it makes any difference I don't know, but I also changed out the original heavy radiator which was developing a series of leaks and replaced it with a lighter alloy version.

After a couple of years the car started to develop creaking noises from the front. All the bolts needed to be tightened, some considerably, and the problem was fixed but a regular inspection of front end bolts is now on the calendar.

[lal Naja]

Don, good to hear from you, Glad the steering is working out for you. I too am loving it an plan on making a few adjustments to see it can soften the angle.

I enjoyed looking at your photos.

Arthur