MGB Front Suspension

65 Blur · #1 (**permalink**) 03-14-2003, 03:14 PM

I have a Butler with the MGB front suspension and it uses the lever arm damper and spring. I have been looking for an upgrade / conversion to a coil-over-telescopic-shock.

On coil-over-shocks suspensions, the damper is acting in the same plane as the spring, making it much more effective. Other suspension modification kits for the MGB use also telescopic shocks, but with spacers etc. to fit them alongside the spring, some with the old Armstrong lever dampers still in place (minus their valves). I believe the some of the Butlers had the later option on some of their cars. In my opinion, the coil-over-shock system is the only useful alternative to the original front suspension.

I have found some conversion kits on the market: MOSS, MGOC, Koni, but all have discontinued stocking these items.

I have searched this site but not found much on this. Does anyone have knowledge / experience with this conversion?

Thanks,

Roy

Steve R · #2 (**permalink**) 03-15-2003, 08:10 AM

Roy,
Why spend that kind of money and effort on that suspension? If you can afford it, replace the whole thing. I have the MGB setup on my Unique. It has the shock kit. I had to decide what to do with it when I discovered the camber was way negative. There is NO adjustment to the geometry other than toe. (you replace parts untill it is in spec) The bolts that hold the swivel assemly to the upper and lower control arms are in shear...pretty poor basic engineering if you ask me... I ended up just rebuilding what I have do to lack of funds. It all works suprisingly well, although I can't help but think of those "come to Jesus" bolts being in shear when I'm doing 80mph

decooney · #3 (**permalink**) 03-15-2003, 08:39 AM

Roy,

my friend Alan is considering the same coil-over / tubular control arm conversion kit for his Butler. He said to tell you that the parts are available in England, and there is an update on Moss. He spoke with Ron Butler about it, twice in the last year, and Ron apparently has a source in England for them too. Two of our local Jaguar service repair shops said they could get the MG parts from England too.

About MOSS:
Alan just called them, they are currently machining up conversion kits now that will be available in two weeks, according to MOSS.

I hope this helps... we'll probably do Alan's car in the next few months. Let me know how the parts look when you get them and how everything bolts up. Alan is at: ahaynes7232@attbi.com

See Ya.

rdorman · #4 (**permalink**) 03-16-2003, 06:38 AM

Hawk engineering in the UK makes a fully adjustable, tubular adjustable setup. It is available through them or Moss here in the states. Cost including all new hardware, bushings etc is about $1200. Modification to the crossmember will be required. The entire geometry of this suspension has been completely redesigned and reportedly is a HUGE improvement over the stock MG stuff. I am changing over to it next winter.

I just adapted a set of Wilwood brakes to fit the MG front. A bunch of work but certainly easier to get performance parts for. Old setup was 4 pot Girling calipers and GM rotors.

Unique does sell a COMPLETE front suspension to replaces the MG. It includes everything such as cross member, suspension and steering and even brakes. Will it fit your car? Probably. $3000.00. When you add up the cost of a complete upgrade you are not far from this number. I should have just bit the bullet and did that myself.

Have fun!

Rick

65 Blur · #5 (**permalink**) 04-04-2003, 04:27 PM

Thanks for the replys. Duane, I emailed your friend Alan (why is he not a member?) regarding the Moss unit.

decooney · #6 (**permalink**) 04-04-2003, 05:57 PM

65 Blur,
good question.... Alan seems to stick to email only; and for whatever reason uses a Mac, which presents surfing and display issues that seem to prevent him from surfing any of the good sites. His email is ahaynes7232@attbi.com if you want to reach him directly. I'll bug him again about getting an ID on ClubCobra so he can hang out and chat with the rest of you Butler/Arntz people...

cob289 · #7 (**permalink**) 04-05-2003, 01:37 PM

Hi all together,

You will get the Hawk front sustention through Hawk Cars Ltd. UK direct. I install it to a customers car and it works brilliant. Much better than the old Moss conversion. For the Cobras it is extra 1/2" offset and you will feel the steering is much easer.
Call Gerry at 0044 1892 750341 send him a fax 0044 1892 750071 or E-mail him under: gerry@hawkcars.co.uk or look at his website under www.hawkcars.co.uk

Fritz

Monster · #8 (**permalink**) 04-08-2003, 09:37 PM

I just posted an email to Gerry. I've been interested for some time in upgrading my stock MGB suspension to something for a bit more performance. I'll post up what i hear back.

Mike "monster"

65 Blur · #9 (**permalink**) 04-09-2003, 01:19 PM

Mike,

I did the same. He replied that it should fit nicely in the Butler and sent some attachments with instructions. With the exchange rate, it looks to be about $1000 US prior to shipping charges. From the description and pictures it looks like a nice unit.

Roy

Steve R · #10 (**permalink**) 04-11-2003, 06:40 AM

Gezz, All that work, you'd think they would have dumped the kingpins? Oh well.
That independant rear setup looks so nice I'm tempted to order one and find an MGB to put over it.

65 Blur · #11 (**permalink**) 07-02-2003, 12:29 PM

Mike,
Have you done anything with your front end yet? After looking around for some time, it looks like the Hawk unit may be my best option.

Roy

Monster · #12 (**permalink**) 07-02-2003, 03:52 PM

Roy,

No, summer is here and I want to drive my car. I did just change over to a Tremec from my Toploader and I'm very happy with that change. I agree Hawk looks like the best option to me as well, I think I will wait until Sept. when I have some time to do a suspension change. Hey maybe we can get a discount if we buy at the same time (or at least save on shipping) if you can wait til summers over.

Let me know ..

Take care,
Mike 'monster"

65 Blur · #13 (**permalink**) 07-02-2003, 04:36 PM

Mike,

I am also planning this as a winter project also - i would go crazy if i couldn't drive with it soo nice out. That is a good idea regarding the possibility of saving some on the volume and shipping. I have not been able to get them nailed down on actual cost in US$ to get one here to CA.

BTW - which Termec did you get. I am running the T5 and it is sweet - easy shifting and 5th makes cruising very nice.

Have fun,

Roy

Monster · #14 (**permalink**) 07-02-2003, 11:39 PM

Roy,
I bought Lew The Taxmans TR-3550 when he swtched to a 3550-II, I didn't need the .63 OD, so the .83 is fine for me. (I can actually talk to a passenger when I'm on the freeway without yelling!!)

.I got a price from Hawk a few months ago(Kit is £645 + shipping etc.) which is around$1073 US + shipping) Let's stay in touch on this.

Take care,
Mike

1cobralover · #15 (**permalink**) 07-07-2003, 09:38 PM

Well I know it been a long time since I put my 2cents in.

The coil unit from MOSS is a part they keep putting in there catalog but it is NO LONGER MADE as of 1998 tried to order one. Was told it was likely that I would NEVER see it and That from MOSS motors

I just got a e-mail from Hawk cobras he sent me a great jpeg of the front suspension and a parts list.. Look VERY NICE. But your still using MGB parts. Looking at some of the old post. Somebody ask why a MGB !! Well that easy 1. Four bolts and the hole frontend came out. 2. Bearing MGB uses the same bearing as 67-72 Camaro,Nova & Monte Carlo so he use the 11' rotors after some machine work and the bolt patten matched the Jags 5 X 4-3/4 .

Now that I starting to see more Arntz, Butler here and at shows I'm thinking about making a webpage for us. I've got a lot of info on the cars

65 Blur · #16 (**permalink**) 07-10-2003, 09:14 AM

Steven,
Let's see some pics of your car / project . You may want contact member Fred Douglass regarding a Arntz / Butler site. He has also mentioned wanting to do something regarding a site and has lots of history for these classics.

Mike,
Did you get my e-mail? 10% discount from Hawk if we order 2 and shipping is £175 for one and for two £215 coming to the Bay Area.

Take Care,

Roy

Chifo Jr · #17 (**permalink**) 07-10-2003, 11:23 AM

If you have some pics of the front end I would be interested in seeing them and possibly going in on a purchase. Have a look at my gallery as I posted a pic of my now 99% complete Butler

65 Blur · #18 (**permalink**) 07-10-2003, 11:42 AM

Pic's at:

http://www.hawkcars.co.uk/parts/mgbfsusp.html

Butler 00 look's great. What kind of wheels? I'm sporting the original 15" Centerlines with the PVC insert. Your look to be 17" and very nice.

Roy

Chifo Jr · #19 (**permalink**) 07-10-2003, 11:47 AM

Thanks for both the link and comments. The wheels are 17 x 11 and 17 x 9.5 polished PSE's. I think it needs to settle a bit more because it still looks a bit higher than I would like, but the low angle does make it appear up there.

Monster · #20 (**permalink**) 07-11-2003, 12:03 PM

Roy,

Yes, I got your email thanks. At the time you (we ) were waiting for Hawk to get back with shipping. I just did a check and 175 British Pound = 286.125 US Dollar

. That sounds pretty high for some A-arms and shocks. Is that a correct shipping cost? At that kind of cost we may need to revist Ron Butler and check on his front suspension upgrades.

Thanks,
Mike