How bad is stale fuel?

[cameron02]

Thats really nice of you Mike, I'll see where I'm at once I get them out.

Hi Ward, I dont believe we use different Sumer and Winter fuel in Australia (it doesnt get cold enough). The fuel is 98 octane Unleaded. A mechanic told me that the 98 octane fuel goes off faster than the 91 octane. Only takes 3 months.

So, looks like I need to remove the plemun. How do I actually get the injectors out? Should/must I take the fuel rail out to? (2002 windsor 5ltr)

[cameron02]

OK, I really feel like hitting something.

I removed the plenum. no probs. I went to remove the 4 bolts holding the fuel rail down and they are super tight. Managed to losen the driver side with a ring spanner but have burrd the passenger side bolts.

Not enough room for a grinder. I guess I can drill them out and make a new thread. Any ideas?

[*Cobber*]

Spray with penetrating oil, get a punch and hit the head of the bolt with a few hard sharp hits, leave for 10 minutes (beer time) then repeat process before having a go at removing bolt. If you get through a carton of beer the bolt is too tight but who cares by then anyway.

[Legless]

As Gav mentioned, it can go like jelly also moisture could be the problem.
Also develops a distinct smell if stale.
cheers

[Modena]

can you get a dremel in there? grind/cut the head off and then use an ezy-out or drill and retap

[cameron02]

I'm feeling a lot better now.

I drilled the tops out of the bolts. Have removed the fuel rail and injectors. Both the bolts had a jagged piece of metal remaining. To my amazement i was able to turn the remaining bolts out with light finger presseue. It must have been the tension from the fuel rail that made the buggers stick.

Anyway, plenty of thread left so I should be able to use standard replacement bolts.

I have removed the injectors (very easy to do, they just pull out) and will take them for cleaning tomorrow. $30 per injector.

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by cameron02

I have removed the injectors (very easy to do, they just pull out) and will take them for cleaning tomorrow. $30 per injector.

You could nearly buy new injectors from the US for that. A set of 8x 42 Pound Bosch motorsport injectors is $320 for my motor.

Cleaning is free at Aussie Mike's workshop and it's probably much the same process the professional shops use. The offer is still open.

Cheers

[cameron02]

Thanks Mike,
I have sent you a private message

[cameron02]

My Mechanic friend suggested that it would be unusual for all the injectors to be blocked and for none of them to let any fuel in. So I decided to get them flow tested before cleaning.

Also I found a local mobile mechanic who was prepared to ultrasonic clean them for $130. Anyway he flow tested them and they check out OK.

He thinks its probably a problem with my computer and it will need to be sent off for repair. He said something about the computer earth probably being stuffed. Of course he wont know until he looks at the car, which he cant do until after Easter.

[boxhead]

You will need to test with an LED NOID light http://www.noidlight.com/
If you use a standard test light it will not blink quick enough to see.

[Merv and Sharon]

Cameron, I had a similar problem with my 302 and used a pretty standard (fused) meter to check that the recommended voltage was reaching the TPS and the injectors. Those Ford EEC/ECUs are pretty tough. I found that the voltage was wrong and that there was a power feed problem and an earth problem with the EEC.

[Gav]

I wouldn't get too concerned with what alot of mechanics say about testing computers, most I have come across couldn't tell you what a multimeter does let alone how to use one properly.
I would be doing as Mike says and have a good look into your wiring. Chances are there is a return wire missing, and if it is anything like mine, it will be hidden in the loom somewhere.

[Merv and Sharon]

If there is no power coming from the loom via the computer check the earth on the harness. Both Cob07 and I had the same missed connection. It does not look like an earth but it is. I am unsure about the year of your Ford motor.

[cameron02]

Hi Merv,
the motor is I believe 2002 from an AUII XR8 220kw version.

The motor used to run fine so if it is an earth problem it will hopefully just be a loose connection.

I will put the injectors and fuel rail back on tomorrow and then start checking earths.

Hey Merv, what was the "earth problem" with your eec. Maybe it will help me find my problem.

[Merv and Sharon]

I may not have the diagram for that particular motor Cameron, but you probably do. The one below will be similar probably. The earth connection can be seen on #49. Also, however, do check the fuse that is on the constant power supply to your EEC. When mine had been sitting for some time that fuse became corroded (some road water had managed to get in earlier) and was the cause of non-starting problems. Took me about 12 hrs to find that! I also used the starter fluid down the intake - it would run then stop and so on. I suspected every single component and wire! It was a simple power supply and a poor earth. I am thinking that yours will be the same.



There also is a whole heap of info on this site which may help. I have some pics as well if needed. Good luck!

[cameron02]

Thanks merv,
I'll check the fuses and relays. Thanks for the diagram but I am hopeless with wiring, that diagram just says blah blah blah

[07cob]

Cameron

As Merv mentioned, I also had a similar issue in getting my engine started.

When you switch the ignition on, can you hear the fuel pump run (even if just for a couple of seconds)? This was a tell-tale for mine. I had missed an earth connection and the ECU would not fire up the pump. Missing earths can cause no end of difficulty identifying problems.

Do you have easy access to the ECU? If so, it would be good to disconnect the big plug and check pins 20, 40, 60 and 49 for earth connections.

Cheers

Geof

[Bernica]

This is 100 octane fuel. the one on the left is fresh. The one on the right is 11 months old....

[cameron02]

Well I put it all back together and of course I tried to start it (just in case the elves had fixed it over night) but no luck. I found a couple of earths in the engine bay and removed sanded back and reinstalled still no luck. I will keep looking.

Geof 07Cob.......Thanks I will check those pins.....hang on a sec....how do I check/test them, or am I just making sure the connectors are there?
Yep the fuel pump is pumping fuel although if the pressure isnt high enough it could be a problem, I'm not able to check that at present.

Merv...........I think I might take you up on that offer of photo's. I'm gunna need all the help I can get

[Merv and Sharon]

PM me a phone number Cameron and I will call you later, if that helps.

Merv