Nationals 2011

[Philm]

There has been much discussion about the future of the nationals.

The discussions are happening from both sides of the fence:

A. The organizers are finding it hard to "find the time" and the NSW club shoulders the huge financial risk.

B. Entrants are not having a good run with the weather, there is distance travelled and obviously cost.

Please take this opportunity to put your views across as this event is not for the organizers but for the Cobra community.

There are some things I would like to put on the table:

1. Wakefield Park is a very busy track and it is a certainty that if we lose our spot it will be gone forever.

2. The NSW club, thru fundraising and the support of Sponsors subsidize every entrant about $130.00.

3. Costs are always increasing.

4. Rough entrant splits 50% NSW, 25% QLD, 20% VIC and 5% other states

Phil

[spookypt]

Phil, we came up with some interesting ideas at our post Nats dinner... I appreciate all the effort the NSW club provide to give the club members an event.

I'd be happy to be involved to throw around and create some ideas.....we always have post nats discussions etc..... For mine I'd like to see it discussed at the Nats at say the Saturday dinner where a show of hands/vote whatever, some input from those who attend as to what they want out of the event....

I found it "strange" that after being advised during the Saturday drivers briefing to be on-time as we are paying for the track etc etc they closed it at 3.15 in the arvo that day.... Couldn't we have done some open track for a while in the dry??? Just one observation amongst many...

While the weather is out of anyones control, if it rains next year......and the format stays the same, I think it will be very hard to maintain the interest from interstate people who don't get the benefit of the public holiday etc etc.

The big thing I learnt over the weekend talking to many NSW members is that they aren't overly interested in sprints/track time etc.... whereas the QLDs are all pretty keen on that aspect and are pretty active in all that up here..
An event for all I agree with, but 6 people on the cruise to Canberra and maybe 25 cars at the show and shine lends me to think that ideas and revamp is worth discussing.

Perhaps each state club can run it each year?????

I'd also like to see the GT40 clubs invited too????

Can each state based club form a group to discuss their respective thoughts and then all groups combine over a phone hook up to discuss a proposal for next year.

I like WP and appreciate the point about losing that slot...

Just my 2 cents worth.

Spoookypt

[400TT]

It's a massive undertaking to organise an event like the Cobra Nats. And that's without considering the financial risk etc. Hats off to the NSW Club and all involved, fantastic effort.

By looking at some of the successful motorsport events around the country, here are some ideas:

Real concourse Show and Shine, cars are on display for significant amount of time, more extensive trophies(best engine bay, interior, paint etc) with concourse judging. In the old days we used to get a lot of the attendance from just show and shine orientated people.

If spectators drive to the event in Cobra's, GT40's etc, they can park in a front area so that people at the event can look at the cars.

Have a track cruise at lunch time, even on both days, for all competitors(including show and shine) with passengers. Or maybe just for show and shine.

Think outside the square to spice up racing events. I heard a good suggestion on the way home. One warm up lap, then standing start single hot lap.

Dyno comp.

Inviting other related parties, other GT40 car clubs, other Daytona clubs/owners/manufacturers.

Run a BBQ etc at the track after the racing stops on Friday arvo/night.

Borrow the Shelby Fest scoring ideas. Nominate your time, regularity timing etc for sprints. Nomimate your time also for Drags, Hill Climb, GoToWhoa.

Charge for admission for non-competitors, even if is a nominal $5 etc. Means manning the gate etc. Is it my imagination or do we not get as many spectators as I thought you would?

Invite original cars to come and be on display and to do some show laps etc, allocate sheds for them to be stored.

Rotating the event to different states is an intersting idea. I feel QLD could run a great event, but do we have the manpower, enthusiasm to do so.

Keep the ideas coming.

[dadndave]

Spooky,
I find it a bit unusual that NSW members should show little interest in track/sprints considering the number that turned up for the Nats. There are a lot of us that participate in these type of events, but not with CCCNSW as it is not a CAMS affiliated club and therefore limited to available circuits ie Wakefield or Winton ( don't know about Qld). I'm sure there are a lot who would love to have the access that Northerners have to more than one track.

As for rotating Nationals, I'm not opposed to travel as it would be the same whether north or south.
Whoever takes on the task, start early in seeking sponsorships to alleviate the cost to the entrant. As Phil mentioned it gets more expensive every year. If it is decided by popular vote to change venue, ensure it is a proportional vote as some states do not have large membership numbers.
As far as I know NSW has run the event for a bulk of the 17 Nats and there has always been talk of moving to other states, but it always fell back to NSW in the end.
Believe me it's not a breeze to run, did the 15th along with PhilM, and I honestly would have continued had work commitments not exploded. Whoever takes on the task, be ready for a lot of flak, because they will be responsible for the bad weather, track downtime, late drivers, incorrect grading, incorrect timing, bad food, ....... the list goes on!

The main purpose of the nationals is. for all cobra owners, admirers and their friends and family to meet once a year to take part in various events ( based on timing)
and to meet socially to renew old and make new friends.
It's NOT a Race Meeting

[boxhead]

I just hope who ever does host it, that the weather is good.
I think that would be the number 1 reason why there is chat of moving it.

Sadly, No one can control the weather.

[T.L.]

I have done a few vintage car rallies, and while sometimes there is a race or speed element, it was always about the cars and the enjoyment we get in presenting these cars and driving them. In those rallies we often stay at obscure places and arange things with the local town people about open days/show and shine etc...... and the support is usually good.

Perhaps some fun things like straight line navigation where everyone usually gets incredible lost, a time-distance thing where you have to drive a distance at an average speed through street with different speed zones etc........ The organisers of the run know the time that they have set, and for every minute you are over under that time you get point deducted. You also have to stop at places and answer questions, cemeterys were always good, like when did john smith who died in 1897 live or do for a pastime, some general knowledge questions car related, some roadside markers along the route that you have to note down, any missed one is lost points,.......

Not everyone wants to put their car onto the track, but if your at the same place every year and do the same run to Canberra or something, then people wont go as they have already done it. You can also have rallies on the way to the nationals, where a route is planned from brisbane/melbourne/adelaide to the location and motels etc are booked. This makes it a relaxed fun time, and you also do the same for going back. Some scouting is usually done, but I am sure that someone knows some sale reps who has traveled along those highways and knows all the good places to stay, and the ones to stay away from!!!!. This side of things could be done by the local chapters of the clubs and they can drum up support within their own club.

I am sure that there are other people on here who are members of other car clubs, so what sort of things do they do, that you would like to do with your Cobra and a bunch of great people!!!!!.

Thats my 2 cents, and at the end of it, I just want to drive through some nice country side hear the sound of the car, talk some rubbish with other owners. I don't really care who has the fastest this and that, those this and thats usually cost a lot of money to get and maintain, but good on the person who does want to as that is their thing, not mine, I just love driving cars of all shapes and sizes.

I once did a track day in a Ferrari where members of the public could pay $5 for a ride in the car and the money was donated to charity, would people like a quick blat around a track with a pace car on there that you were not allowed to pass so speeds were controlled in a manor. I know I will never forget seeing an Enzo coming up behind me and me moving over it passed me up the inside and then i tried to follow it and it was good bye. It came back 3 laps later, same result, but wow.

well thats maybe 5 cents now.
Cheers
Lawrence

[REPTYL]

Maybe the "Nats" need to be scaled back, to take the financial risk away from the NSW club.

Don't call it the Nationals. Re-invent it in to a new fresh event.

Then add it to the calendar along side the Vic Shelby Fest, an Adelaide Run and Gun and a QLD Race weekend.

This is what I would call a truly National Event, and would run over the full year through out the country.

[Towmaster]

The Shannons Muscle Car shoot out(Queensland Raceway, last weekend in june usually) is definitely an event to not be missed. Great exposure with about 10,000 people turning up to watch on the Sunday.

Bathurst is also a great event.... although if we start racing around there and times get lowered it will only be a matter of 'time' before somebody hits a wall....

[750hp]

Originally Posted by 400TT

In the old days we used to get a lot of the attendance from just show and shine orientated people.

That's an interesting point. Back in West Wyalong days, the emphasis seemed completely different. Maybe the years since have clouded my memory, but I can't recall seeing more than 3 or 4 trailers in total at the West Wyalong event. How many interstate or even local cars were actually driven to WP this year? West Wyalong was just at a runway so people got their speed fix in the standing Km event, but could do it in a car that they drove to the event. There was a miniscule chance of breaking parts compared to circuit racing, so everyone drove to WW. Towing a car to a racetrack is the only sensible option, but it takes away the thrill of the journey.

Interests and motivations change, along with the dollars invested in cars these days. Heck, what insurer would even allow us to take over an airport anymore!

Out of interest, does anyone know how much track time you'd get at the Shannons Muscle Car Shootout compared to at the Nats? Seems like sponsor exposure to 10000 people via stickers on windscreens / static signs / pit banners, plus zero financial risk to the club might be an option to consider?

[sideshow]

there was so much car stuff going on last weekend aswell
i did a car for the 4wd comp called yellowglen than was on last weekend
also friend went to the ute muster he said it was so much better than caberra summernats and very family orientated
cold chisel played too maybe thats what the cobra nats needs heheeh

not sure if the cobra nats wants any people from the public turning up
but unless u are on these forums u basically have no idea they r on
unless u have a friend with a cobra that tells u

id also blame government for having no interest in sport
eastern creek is way to expensive to run events there these days
so sydney really only has goulburn and when our kids start to drive there prob wont be anywhere to go racing in nsw except our local streets or build drag cars
so maybe look at moving it interstate

[400TT]

Just out of interest NSW started hosting the Nationals at Wakefield Park in 2001 (if my memory serves me correctly).

So 10 years of Wakefield Park.

[TUF-427]

First of all Ive got to thank the Nsw Club for putting on yet another fantastic Nationals event under some trying conditions.

As far as the weathers concerned,
this is a risk no matter where or when Any Motorsport event is held,

Theres only been one of the seven I have attended that didnt have a result.

as Phil has said if it was held at Willowbank or Warwick in Qld on the same weekend it would have been totally washed out,

and its probably always raining in the deep southern states!

Im pretty sure I did over 50 laps this year from Thursday to Sunday so I feel the trip was worthwhile as Wakefield is a fantastic track,
way better than Qr or Mp...Not as good as Bathurst Tho..

I think it would be a mistake to give up the Weekend the nationals is run on at Wakefield,as you would never get it back!

Where else can you do a hillclimb on the same circuit?

All the Australian circuits are getting busier as the years go by and Trackdays increase in popularity,

its hard enough getting a suitable date for a single Weekend day for practice at Morgan Park thats not Late November/December when its too hot for everyone..

You cant Dispute the fact that Wakefield is the Most Central as possible to hold a National Event,

and I believe this Event should always be our "Grand Final" so to speak,

It has a good mix of driving events to test out everybodys Driving and Cars strengths and weaknesses...

And to have some Car fun with like minded people...

Yes I agree the Show and Shine aspect should be an important part of a national event and given more consideration and time..

Having the cars in town on the main street Sat morning was a great part of the event a few years ago....I guess time and costs have stopped this...

It has been discussed at length about running an event in Queensland,

Im not sure we could pull of a Standalone event like the Nationals sucessfully which is why its easier to piggyback onto events like the Musclecar shootout at Qr,

which is really just a sprint event I think we got 20 cars for 4 x 5 lap sessions this year,two each day which wasnt enough tracktime IMHO.

One thing done with this event is I score a regularity within the running of the Sprint,

with fastest induvidual time run from each session per driver automatically used as their nominated "regularity time" for that session.

This allows Drivers to improve their times over the weekend without penalty and stop Sandbagging to some extent..

Winners of Sprint Trophys are not Eligible for Regularity trophys to encourage attendance of drivers with slower cars or on street tyres etc,

and after two years so far this has worked a treat with nobody actually Winning both anyway!

And for all you Qld guys that posted it would be a good idea to run an event up here you have all been automatically posted into the Qld Motor sport committee to help out for future events for trying to give me more work!

Cheers Peter..

[Towmaster]

Well said Pete!

[Mrs flatchat]

After reading the other posts, Mr Flatchat and I have had some discussions about the Nationals.
Chris has suggested that it would be a good idea to hold them midweek. That way any travelling could be done on the weekends, and track hire is possibly cheaper on weekdays. Also the availability is more likely.
As we Qlders already take a week off work, ( have a social drive over 2 days there and 2 days back and 3 days at Wakefield Park ), what difference would it make if we had it midweek. The travelling could be done at the weekend.
The social aspect is as important as the competition, so we need to make sure that we don't kill that.
I can also see that the Show n Shine is an important event, so people can show their pride and joy.
If for example we held the event at Morgan Park in Qld, there is a drag strip next to the circuit that we could use for the drags and Go to Whoa. With the new track extension there are at least 12 track configurations. We could do Sprints for those interested, and Regularity for drivers who don't want to go too fast. That way we would also encourage more female competitors.
You can still win a trophy by doing a slower time, you just have to be consistent.
Just some ideas for consideration.

Queen Flatchat

[boxhead]

That is clever thinking, Mid week I would think would not turn too many people off as they are traveling for a day or 2 anyway.

[Ralph_C]

Hats off to Mrs Flatchat. Mid week would be better, and reduce prices.

And as many have said, this is a social event as much as track time.

Having said that however, a key issue is the classification system. Looking at the Sprint results ...

Class 1 - 1:17 --> 1:22 - 3 entrants Street Class up to 5800cc
Class 2 - 1:09 --> 1:25 - 16 entrants Modified up to 5199cc
Class 3 - 1:09 --> 1:21 - 24 entrants Modified 5200cc to 6999cc
Class 4 - 1:10 --> 1:28 - 6 entrants Over 7000cc, or boosted
Class 6 - 1:08 --> 1:19 - 15 entrants Open.... (unregistered)

The range of times says it all. Engine capacity does not limit car capability. But nearly everyone gets pushed out of Class 1 into 2 or 3 via a minor mod ... eg. DadnDave, with a 289, is in Class 2 because of roller rockers. BJ_Snake moved to Class 2 courtesy of new tyres (admittedly dropping 4 secs off his time). I normally run in Class 1, and if I change tyres, how will I know whether it will be argued that they are not suitable for Class 1 (I would really like to run ET Street Radials - are these Class 1 or not)?

It would be much better to classify cars according to their ability to achieve a particular time, or adopt a handicap system.

The things that chiefly affect times are: Power, grip (tyres type and profile), and weight.

So why not classify cars according to power, with handicaps applied dependent on tyres/wheels and weight.
Power could be tested using a portable dyno (and would add a dyno comp), which then allows a base classification.
Wakefield has scales in the scrutineering shed, providing determination of any weight handicap on the spot (could include driver weight as well), and
tyre handicaps could be determined ahead of time. Yokohama 352 (15", 60 profile) would be a good base standard (current accepted Class 1 tyre).

If this were done correctly, it could allow everyone to compete against each other based on improvment to a time set for the car, rather than direct comparison.

And add regularity events for those that do not want to push their pride and joy too hard...

[Pete Dore]

I agree with the proposal by Mrs Flatchat. It makes a lot of sense to use time like this and to beef up the social aspects.

I also think Ralph has a sensible suggestion and will add my vote to his in this.

Cheers

[spookypt]

Originally Posted by Mrs flatchat

After reading the other posts, Mr Flatchat and I have had some discussions about the Nationals.
Chris has suggested that it would be a good idea to hold them midweek. That way any travelling could be done on the weekends, and track hire is possibly cheaper on weekdays. Also the availability is more likely.
As we Qlders already take a week off work, ( have a social drive over 2 days there and 2 days back and 3 days at Wakefield Park ), what difference would it make if we had it midweek. The travelling could be done at the weekend.
The social aspect is as important as the competition, so we need to make sure that we don't kill that.
I can also see that the Show n Shine is an important event, so people can show their pride and joy.
If for example we held the event at Morgan Park in Qld, there is a drag strip next to the circuit that we could use for the drags and Go to Whoa. With the new track extension there are at least 12 track configurations. We could do Sprints for those interested, and Regularity for drivers who don't want to go too fast. That way we would also encourage more female competitors.
You can still win a trophy by doing a slower time, you just have to be consistent.
Just some ideas for consideration.

Queen Flatchat

Nice suggestion Queen Flatchat....

[aussiecoupe]

Yes the NSW club members who did all the work so we can come along and run around need all the thanks we can give them .
There has been many different options about the event , so i have only some small things that may be considered .
I think the the NSW club has done such a good job with organizing things like sample bags , T shirts , towels , clothing , fully decked out party rooms that any other club thinking of taking on the Nationals would feel intimidated .

Do we need all the goodies , are these free to the club ? .

The social side has gone a bit due to the fact that we cannot all fit in to one motel, but saying that, it is up to us all to sit at different tables on the nights and meet new friends .

If the NSW club gave it away just how many from NSW would come ? and VIC ?. WE drive about 14hrs to Goulburn and 20hrs to Winton .

Warwick.

[Beejay]

Warwick,

Basically everything in the goodies bag is donated, but it does take a fair bit of work to track down and then pack.

Ben