Absolute Pace

Go Back   Club Cobra > Club Forums > Australian Cobra Club

Welcome to Club Cobra!  The World's largest non biased Shelby Cobra related site!

  •  » Representation from nearly all Cobra/Daytona/GT40 manufacturers
  •  » Help from all over the world for your questions
  •  » Build logs for you and all members
  •  » Blogs
  •  » Image Gallery
  •  » Many thousands of members and nearly 1 million posts! 

YES! I want to register an account for free right now!  p.s.: For registered members this ad will NOT show

MMG Superformance
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Main Menu
Nevada Classics
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Advertise at CC
Banner Ad Rates
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
Keith Craft Racing
MMG Superformance
March 2024
S M T W T F S
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2013, 11:53 PM
PeterAllen's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sydney, NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: Puckett 250 GTO - LS1
Posts: 567
Not Ranked     
Default Speedo in 'line-of-sight'?

I was just looking at Wazza's beautifully finish car with a considerable degree of envy Wazza's Cobra update. and I noticed the centre console positioning of the speedo, and tach.

I would like to recreate the 250 GTO instrument panel which only had a tacho and then mount a speedo under the dash or down on the transmission tunnel as many GTOs did for road registration (see photo). I was under the impression a speedo had to be in 'line-of-sight', i.e. visible through the steering wheel, and I wondered how that is interpreted buy the RMS.

I'll ask my engineer but does anyone have information on this issue. Thanks
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 12:00 AM
Wazza's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Gold Coast Queensland, QLD
Cobra Make, Engine: Harrison#97 LS7 / T56
Posts: 1,681
Not Ranked     
Default

I think that "rule" has been outdated....
I was worried that I'd get pulled up for doing it, but it was never mentioned.

If you look at some current new cars ( Mini Cooper s)... They have the speedo in the middle,


http://www.seriouswheels.com/2006/20...r-1280x960.htm


so it must be legal I guess.
Cheers,
Warren

Last edited by Wazza; 05-25-2013 at 12:05 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 12:37 AM
PeterAllen's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sydney, NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: Puckett 250 GTO - LS1
Posts: 567
Not Ranked     
Default

Warren – That image isn't all that clear. What are the instruments on the steering column?

(edit) I've looked on Google 'search' and you're right - Thanks.

Last edited by PeterAllen; 05-25-2013 at 12:43 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 12:50 AM
Zedn's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney, NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: RCM, Jag front and rear, LS3
Posts: 1,640
Not Ranked     
Default

The original BMW mini had the speedo any tachometer swapped for Australian delivery. The speedo was moved to being the small one behind the steering wheel and the tachometer in the centre. On the newer cars the speedo is in the middle. Somewhere in between there must have been a change to ADRs.

They put the speedo in the middle from around 2007 on.

Treeve can probably shed some light on the topic.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 12:52 AM
Zedn's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney, NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: RCM, Jag front and rear, LS3
Posts: 1,640
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAllen View Post
Warren – That image isn't all that clear. What are the instruments on the steering column?

(edit) I've looked on Google 'search' and you're right - Thanks.
2006 had speedo and tach above the steering column.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 01:03 AM
Zedn's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney, NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: RCM, Jag front and rear, LS3
Posts: 1,640
Not Ranked     
Default

Just looked it up. It changed July 2006 but the change doesnt appear to be anything about location. Current requirement is:


5.1.The display of the speedometer must be located within the direct field of view of the driver and must be clearly legible both day and night. The range of speeds displayed must be sufficiently wide to include the maximum speed of this type of vehicle as stated by the manufacturer.

I can't see a diagram for determining direct field of view, but I'm looking on my little iPhone screen. If mini has it that way it's a pretty easy argument. In my opinion direct field of view is what you can see with your eyes without turning your head away from the direction of the road. But that is just my guess.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 04:07 AM
jcraigau's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Perth, WA
Cobra Make, Engine: G-Force Mk1, LS1, T56, Jag S3 suspension
Posts: 587
Not Ranked     
Default

My '69 Cooper S had it in the middle :-)

Last edited by jcraigau; 05-25-2013 at 04:08 AM.. Reason: past tense
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 02:22 PM
Tonus72's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hobart, TAS
Cobra Make, Engine: ?????
Posts: 494
Not Ranked     
Default

Hi,

I had a 2006 Mini Cooper S (pre-kids!) Having the smaller speedo and tach side-by-side above the steering column was an option on the early BMW Minis. It was called the 'chrono pack' and replaced the large centre speedo with a few small gauges. Was not an option on the second generation I don't think.

So nothing to do with line of sight, but I preferred it because the smaller speedo was easier to keep and eye on, and my right foot is heavier than my left!

Tone
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 02:24 PM
Tonus72's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hobart, TAS
Cobra Make, Engine: ?????
Posts: 494
Not Ranked     
Default

DUplicate

Last edited by Tonus72; 05-25-2013 at 02:37 PM.. Reason: .
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 05:06 PM
400TT's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gold Coast, AUS
Cobra Make, Engine: Wish I had my own PACE 427
Posts: 2,145
Not Ranked     
Default

As described by the ADR, you can have the speedometer anywhere in the field of view. Zedn has the right idea by field of view.

Just sit in the vehicle look forward as you would do driving the vehicle and you can determine the field of view pretty easily.

So guages towards the middle of the vehicle are fine, even my Wife's Yaris has a centre speedo/instrument cluster. But if you do move the guages from the traditional location make sure they are still easy to see, either large enough to be easily visible or tilted towards the driver.

Peter down on the console would probably be a little low and out of field of view in my opinion but it all depends on your seating position. i.e. a GT40 could have the speedo a lot lower than a Cobra due to the different seating heights etc.

Not placing the instruments behind the steering wheel has quite a few advantages, the instruments are never blocked by the steering wheel when turning and the visibiliy of instruments are not affected by height of driver or height adjustment of the column(if column is adjustable).

That extract that Zedn posted is from ADR 18/03.

Hope that helps mate.
__________________
www.absolutepace.com
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2013, 06:15 PM
PeterAllen's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sydney, NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: Puckett 250 GTO - LS1
Posts: 567
Not Ranked     
Default

Many many thanks for the posts above, it's great to get feedback from those who know or who are prepared to offer an informed opinion.

I have been advised that as my project is a ‘modification’ and not an ‘ICV’ I am required to comply with the ADRs applicable to the vehicle when it was initially built – March 1972. That means I sit between the 1st and newest generation Minis, and Yaris, etc. and I have to have the speedo in front of the driver.

This must be about the one thousandth idea that never quite makes it to the build!!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2013, 12:32 AM
Aussie Mike's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sunbury, VIC
Cobra Make, Engine: Rat Rod Racer, LS1 & T56
Posts: 5,391
Not Ranked     
Default

Just use a speedo and tacho that are the same size. After rego you can swap them around.

Cheers
__________________
Mike Murphy
Melbourne Australia

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2013, 04:45 PM
PeterAllen's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sydney, NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: Puckett 250 GTO - LS1
Posts: 567
Not Ranked     
Default

Mike – You’re not just a pretty face... but such subterfuge will not be required (see following).

Good news - The relevant ADR (18) wasn't introduced until Jan '73 so I can now relocate the Speedo. To be fair to my engineer I hadn’t reminded him of the 240Z build date (3/72) and he assumed it was post Jan ’73.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2013, 07:11 PM
boxhead's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Alice Springs, central Australia, NT
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic revival kit (CR3181), gen III engine, T56 6 speed box, AU XR8 lsd diff
Posts: 5,699
Send a message via Yahoo to boxhead
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Mike View Post
Just use a speedo and tacho that are the same size. After rego you can swap them around.

Cheers
Not that I probably needed to, but this is exactly what I did.

How mine is now after swapping.
__________________

Cruising in 5th


---------------------------------------------
Never be afraid to do something new, Remember, Amateurs built the Ark: Professionals built the Titanic.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2013, 07:12 PM
Aussie Mike's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sunbury, VIC
Cobra Make, Engine: Rat Rod Racer, LS1 & T56
Posts: 5,391
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAllen View Post
Mike – You’re not just a pretty face... .
Definitley not a pretty face unless the international standards of beauty have been drasticaly revised.
__________________
Mike Murphy
Melbourne Australia

Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2013, 04:25 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Orange, NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: Dax
Posts: 429
Not Ranked     
Default

The words 'field of view' are also defined in the ADRs as well, being a 20degree cone from the 95th percentile of (lots of other boring technicalities).

If you go to the department of infrastructure's website you can find the ADRs, the definitions, and also, my all time favourite piece of the Aussie govt giving us as modifiers / builders the shaft: ADR 0.

Treeve
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2013, 05:13 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Newcastle, Warners Bay, NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: RMC . 393 Dart alloy block Stroked 351 alloy heads ..all the goodies plus a pre oiler. al
Posts: 1,495
Not Ranked     
Default

The 95th percentile ...It needs a lot of digging to find the final figures,....ha ha ha
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2013, 06:10 AM
PeterAllen's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sydney, NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: Puckett 250 GTO - LS1
Posts: 567
Not Ranked     
Default

I would like to take the opportunity to publicly thank Treeve for alerting me (via another forum) to the 1st Jan ’73 introduction of ADR 18. Thank you.

I have spent most of today pondering how to make a 5” bezel for the a new tacho housing.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2013, 06:19 AM
400TT's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gold Coast, AUS
Cobra Make, Engine: Wish I had my own PACE 427
Posts: 2,145
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treeve View Post
The words 'field of view' are also defined in the ADRs as well, being a 20degree cone from the 95th percentile of (lots of other boring technicalities).
Treeve, I thought that definition was just for rear view mirrors???

Mind you this is an area we have not needed to fully educate ourselves on yet. So I am certainly no expert. And too short on time to look it up unfortunately...
__________________
www.absolutepace.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: CC Policy