Car build oportunity

[Mrs flatchat]

I've just learned that the DRB 540 business is inviting expressions of interest.
This is a well engineered product that deserves to be carried forward -- IMO

[Modena]

Wow, first Cobra Kits (Harrison) is sold, Classic Revival is apparently open to offers, the alleged criminal David Tucker has his for sale, and now DRB

Craig, you scared them all away with Absolute Pace, now for the next phase of your cunning take-over-the-world-plan

[albanycobra]

I think a lot of these old Skool manufacturers are suffering. Their product is out of date, people hate having to go to the wreckers to find a dodgy steering column from a laser or front uprights from a cortina or a diff from a skyline...Or bring home a whole wreck to start with. I believe the donor days are over.....

The new age is all new parts OE or fabricated. People want bling ,they want perfect fibreglass. They want resonable prices. People expect the kits to go togethor well with minimal fuss....I feel that Pace will have success because they have embraced all these factors. I think this is also why FFR have had so much success.

This of course is just IMHO.

[400TT]

Originally Posted by Modena

Craig, you scared them all away with Absolute Pace, now for the next phase of your cunning take-over-the-world-plan

Got to take that as a compliment, but it really isn't the case in my opinion.


Times are really tough in the kit car industry, like a lot of small businesses in Australia, these are challenging times.

Plus I think that a lot of the established players are at that stage where they are looking to do something else.

I think Dave(albanycobra) has hit the nail on the head. I believe times have changed and I have invested heavily in that belief.

The way we operate:
We use latest computer aided design and testing tools to develop our products.
We are driven by quality and value for money. We believe our kits are cheaper to construct than our competitors products.
We have a large scale production approach to building our kits.
We offer a one-stop shop for everything related to kit cars.

Plus I work tirelessly day & night on the business.

We are fortunate to have a large number of kit orders on the books and lots of other work in the shop.

We are always on the lookout for additional staff, additional infrastructure and additional space.

I really hope that we can bring something very positive to the hobby.

Interesting times...

[Mrs flatchat]

Its only the DRB 540 part of the business

There is still a need for donor parts, as they are pretested and certified (incl. faults)
Custom manufactured components --as used in suspensions etc -- are ideally made using CAD with FEA -- the FEA is non destructive testing and is subject to the operators input .
An independent certifier would need to be employed for these critical parts to certified as to appease ADR requirements I would think

[400TT]

Originally Posted by Mrs flatchat

An independent certifier would need to be employed for these critical parts to certified as to appease ADR requirements I would think

That is how we do it. Our certifiers can simulate full vehicle models performing a range of vehicle tasks and maneuvers to test it's dynamics, loads, stresses and performance.


I disagree with the need for donor parts as all the kits I have seen that use donor parts have some fabricated components, fabricated mounting points and not necessarily mounting/using the donor parts exactly the same way as they came from the donor. These aspects are not tested or analysed by the kit manufacturer to the degree that I believe is required. e.g. performance of collapsible column, suspension mounts, bump steer etc.

And in my opinion the market/hobby has made their opinion clear on this subject as well and what they are looking for today in a kit car.

But the great thing is there is choice in the market and people can choose the approach that suits their requirements.

(Donor car approach is what DRB use and a note to everyone that does not realise Mr/Mrs Flatchat are heavily aligned with DRB.)

[BMK]

409TT

Craig,

I would not be worried to much about other kit suppliers using donor parts.

Your cars and components are far superior to even the parts that donor cars offer up.

Additionally, the option to have a kit as you supply that fits together with little input and work by a purchaser is a real bonus. Not to mention the quality and appearance of a chassis and suspension that looks like it belongs together.

Other suppliers will need to lift their game or fade out. As you highlighted FFR under the Smith boys have realized this and taken their product to the next level - as you have done.

Again well done by lifting the bar. I am sure that other supplier will look at R and D and improve to all of our benefit.

[maxwell]

Could it also just be the fact that are are just too many Cobras around and too for sale?

Prices on established cars have dropped so much and not selling.

After all they are not unique any more.

But agreed, quality will always be in a better position on the market.

Max.

[BMK]

400TT

Craig,

I would not be worried to much about other kit suppliers using donor parts.

Your cars and components are far superior to even the parts that donor cars offer up....

Additionally, the option to have a kit as you supply that fits together with little input and work by a purchaser is a real bonus. Not to mention the quality and appearance of a chassis and suspension that looks like it belongs together.

Other suppliers will need to lift their game or fade out. As you highlighted FFR under the Smith boys have realized this and taken their product to the next level - as you have done.

Again well done by lifting the bar. I am sure that other suppliers will step up and look at R and D and improve to all of our benefit.

[boxhead]

Sorry if I am out of line, but does every thread need to turn into an advert for the Pace vehicle?

It looks to be a great product, there are numerous threads on the product already.
Not every thread needs to be about it.

[400TT]

Originally Posted by boxhead

Sorry if I am out of line, but does every thread need to turn into an advert for the Pace vehicle?

I would hope not and have stayed out of the other business for sale threads etc, but if I come up in the topic I will respond if I feel I need. Especially if my business or business approach is put into question.

Originally Posted by maxwell

Could it also just be the fact that are are just too many Cobras around and too for sale?

If you saw the number of kits we have sold recently, you wouldn't be saying that. Even now I believe there is a good market out there and have put my money where my mouth is. But we are also bringing in different types of buyers into the hobby as well, which I think is a good thing.

[Cobra01]

Hi Guys

I wonder how many unfinished kits there are out there .

The number would surely be in the 100 plus judging by the threads in this forum.

I for one didn't like the way some other manufacturers said that get a donor car and use the bits E.G. Commodore front end brakes and the like.

Your enjoyment and life are at stake when you take a Cobra for a drive and I for one like to feel safe on the road when i am driving a car no matter what the car make is.

Cheers

Brad

[sideshow]

it all comes down to money
shares are down and people loosing jobs
its not just kits cars that have this problem
normal everyday jap import conversions are down too
as I know of afew import shops that have closed in Sydney

I saw Harrison cobra chassis few weeks ago on the jig and they are running late model Nissan suspension and steering so I guess u need to keep up to date or get left behind like all businesses

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by Cobra01

Your enjoyment and life are at stake when you take a Cobra for a drive and I for one like to feel safe on the road when i am driving a car no matter what the car make is.

Cheers

Brad

The safety of any car is as much dependent on the skills of the builder as it is on the parts used. Every manufacturer shares parts between models and between makes - using donor parts when building a cobra is no different to what manufacturers do. I dont think you can suggest a car is unsafe because it uses parts from another vehicle (provided parts are new\refurbished or tested). Having a manufacturer build a working and tested prototype for me would have been bigger issue in regards to safety. Just my opinion. I just have a ****ty old bitsa, so what would I know....

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by Modena

Wow, first Cobra Kits (Harrison) is sold, Classic Revival is apparently open to offers, the alleged criminal David Tucker has his for sale, and now DRB

Craig, you scared them all away with Absolute Pace, now for the next phase of your cunning take-over-the-world-plan

In regards to CR, my understanding is that the owner was having some health issues, nothing to do with Pace. I reckon there have been more CR's registered (in NSW at least) in the past 12 months than any other make.

Also, Dave Tucker I think was targeting a completely different market to most other manufacturers. Not sure what market.....??

[Mrs flatchat]

Craig, you have an outstanding product there and we wish you every success with it.
I suspect it was from your first Cobra (DRB) build that has inspired you to take this replica car business to the ultimate level.

I've been in the manufacturing game for over 40 years and these last 10 years change is rapid -- you can practically design and produce things from your iphone --I know I could run a machine shop from it

FYI :-
We have a long standing friendship with DRBs owners past and present, us Oldies have to stick together - nothing to do with their business.

Denis Bedford (original DRB), whom I respect as an innovator --was bold enough to do an all Aluminium mono chassis for the XJ13 then the SC540 , BDM Cobra, D type Jag and I'm fairly positive that the XJ13 chassis was RCRs inspiration for an all Ally chassis.

Thanks for listening

[BMK]

Tenrocca

I think Tucker targets the market that are prepared to pay deposits and ongoing payments and see nothing.

But this is not a Tuucker Thread there are other a threads about him.

The long line to the side are his customers who have nothing to show for their money or a pile of steel..

[Towmaster]

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

The safety of any car is as much dependent on the skills of the builder as it is on the parts used. Every manufacturer shares parts between models and between makes - using donor parts when building a cobra is no different to what manufacturers do. I dont think you can suggest a car is unsafe because it uses parts from another vehicle (provided parts are new\refurbished or tested). Having a manufacturer build a working and tested prototype for me would have been bigger issue in regards to safety. Just my opinion. I just have a ****ty old bitsa, so what would I know....

Well said Andrew. Car companies spend a lot of money designing and crash testing components they put in to their cars. This is so that regular joes like us can drive around in their vehicles in relative safety. That testing procedure is why a lot of kits use donor cars for their suspension. They are a tested and proven entity and very rarely fail. Kit cars in the past have been a simple design with well thought out components designed to make the 'build' a lot easier. I think Craig's Pace is more of an assembly than a build.... You just bolt it all together, which will probably open him up to a lot more clients. You probably won't need a welder or grinder or anything like that. For me the attraction with building my DRB was about the 'build'. I enjoyed hunting through wreckers looking for parts, then rebuilding, modifying and painting them. I had a real sense of achievement when I got it registered (2003). I bought my kit straight after one of my best mates who was 23 died of Cancer. I remember thinking i'm sick of putting this off and waiting till I can afford to do it i'm just gunna do it. For me I will probably never sell this car.
Craig is a personal friend and was the first person I met in the Cobra Club. He introduced me to everyone up here and I then joined the club. He then had a DRB and his enthusiasm for the Cobra marque was undeniable. To see him build this product is nothing short of remarkable. We all knew he would be able to sell them, I just didn't realise they were gunna look this good.
As with any new product there are bound to be glitches, you can't reproduce all driving / road conditions with a computer. I am sure that Craig will be on the ball and will quickly react to any problems they have.
Just my 20c

[sambo]

The other safety factor in a Cobra (or lack thereof) is the height of the occupants - anything coming at you with a large frontal area, a 4WD or heaven forbid a truck... you might as well be on a motorbike. When it comes to safety I care less about whether the control arms are bespoke alloy items vs pressed steel factory components, and more about the idiots on the road around me. Let's not confuse bling with safety!

[400TT]

With respects to a working prototype, if we had waited to develop one it would significantly increase the lead time. To be useful you would need to perform extensive testing with it etc. How much would that cost the business and how much would that increase the cost of each kit sold, a lot. I'm not even sure if that approach would be viable, definitely would not be viable in the current financial environment.

We are working with some of our owners to perform this testing.

We have gone with the approach of creating a flexible design that can be upgraded easily if required for owners. Aside from the extensive adjustability of the suspension, we can also send out bolt-on updates that can alter any part of the suspension architecture, any part of the suspension geometry, even adjust drivetrain mounting locations or even what type/brand components are supported etc etc. Makes it easy to send owners free upgrades if required or to upgrade or alter if their requirements change.

As mentioned the tools are there to produce a much more refined and developed product straight off the bat. We are tryng to break out of the tradition of owners refining the vehicle design and operation themselves.

I also don't believe a working prototype will significantly increase safety.

The critical aspects when it comes to safety in kit cars is all built into the chassis & body design/construction.

Well that is just my opinion, I hope it is of some interest.