5.0L Cammer Build.

[LJ47]

Hi All
Finally have most of the parts I need to start building my dream motor a 302 N/A high revving quod cam.
It's been a long time collecting all the parts from the States.
My experience has been lots of promises on service, payments up front and long time on delivering on those promises.
Anyway the only thing left of the puzzle is the crank which I am still waiting for after 27 weeks from ordering and payment
My car currently runs a 5.4 modular with stacked drive by wire throttle bodies so the engine bay will have a simular look with the new motor less the weight.
The basic recipe for the motor is as below.
Ford Racing Big Bore Aluminium 5.0L Block. Billet 4340 custom lightened crankshaft. Carrillo H-Beam rods. Wiseco domed pistons. 4V Heads built by Eddie from Head stud Technology. Stack injected drive by wire Motec controlled.
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2092&pictureid=11501[/IMG]
The look of the engine.

The Block

The type of cars that use the 5.0L Cammer.
Will keep updating if you guys are interested on the process of the build, transplant, Dyno results and race track testing.

[Rick Parker]

Who do you have the crank ordered with?

[LJ47]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

Who do you have the crank ordered with?

Hi Rick
MODMAX Florida.

[stiffy]

LJ,

Did you mean SLOMAX




STIFFY

[LJ47]

Hi Stiffy
Earlier in the week when I called for a update on progress the reply was the job is pending. After I hung up I thought what does that mean.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by LJ47

Earlier in the week when I called for a update on progress the reply was the job is pending. After I hung up I thought what does that mean.

Sorry mate, but it sounds like they are going to keep you waiting.

I'm hoping I'm wrong

[Russell9318]

LJ, is this the Coyote or is it something different again. If it is the Coyote, where can I get those rocker covers.

Yes, keep the build update coming.

Cheers

Russell

[Aussie Mike]

Definitely keen to hear more about this beast of a motor.

Cheers

[LJ47]

Hi Russel
No it is not the Coyote completely different engine. The 5.0L Cammer was never used as a production engine for Ford (I'm shore some will correct me if I am wrong) It was developed for motor sport and crate motor applications only. The Cammer block uses all the same componentry as the Modular family so the heads, water pumps, bell housings, etc are the same as the 5.4 I am using at the moment.

[fordracing65]

I had a 5 litre Cammer in my SPF, sold it last year, nice engine down a little on the Coyote in power, I put it in 5 years ago, when I bought my Cammer it was the same price as a big block aluminum FE, boy did I learn...

[Chris L]

Keep the info coming LJ, looks the goods. what sort of figures are you chasing with this thing, with the spec you have chosen.
All the best
Chris L

[LJ47]

Hi Chris
The last engine I had built was 5.4L made 420 RWH with the same cams I am using in the new Cammer. This time looking for 420 to 430 RWH the cams fell over at 7400 rpm in the last motor but the new heads have had a lot more work done to them and flow better. The Cammer is oversquare will have a lighter rotating mass and better flowing heads so the dyno will tell the story. I will rev the engine to the point when the cams stop making power hopefully past my wish list shift point 7500rpm.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by LJ47

Hi All
Finally have most of the parts I need to start building my dream motor a 302 N/A high revving quod cam.
It's been a long time collecting all the parts from the States.

My experience has been lots of promises on service, payments up front and long time on delivering on those promises.

Anyway the only thing left of the puzzle is the crank which I am still waiting for after 27 weeks from ordering and payment
...
Will keep updating if you guys are interested on the process of the build, transplant, Dyno results and race track testing.

I built a similar but different variation of the engine LJ. Mine was a standard bore Sean Hyland block with a blower. When I was looking for a crank vendor I wanted specific changes made to the crank for strength and longevity.

While a blown engine works pieces differently than a n/a engine dies, the areas I wanted modified were the snout diameter and length up from 1.25 inches to 1.400 inches. A longer snout for better support of various drive mechanisms including the blower. A bigger and stronger damper attachment using a 5/8 stud that anchors back in the the counterweight for #1 main and gets torqued to 260 ft/lbs. A 2.000" Chevy rod journal for better bearing selection. Rifle drilled main journals for weight reduction. 7/16" SAE NF flywheel bolts because we had experienced some flex plate movement with the stock 10mm fasteners.

The final mod was to use Timken 4330V steel. The 4330V Timken steel is what the current cranks in the Top Fuel Dragsters and Funny Cars use. It roughly doubles the crank life they were getting with various vacuum degassed electric remelt 4340 steels.

The guys who can make this kind of custom crank are the Winberg Crank brothers. Their website is Winberg Crankshaft (<= clickable) You may not want and probably do not need all the stuff I wanted because you are naturally aspirated and at a different power level.

What you will want is the quality, strength/durability, and pricing they offer. Your chosen crank vendor does not even make his own cranks and sadly carries forward many of the OEM design flaws in his billet offerings. If you have not taken delivery yet I would cancel my order and buy from guys who really know what they are doing and can do literally anything you want.

The backbone in your engine is your crankshaft - choose wisely.

Ed

If you decide to investigate Winberg ask for Randy Winberg. Tell him I sent you and you will be quite happy with the experience if you decide to go that route.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by LJ47

Hi Chris
The last engine I had built was 5.4L made 420 RWH with the same cams I am using in the new Cammer. This time looking for 420 to 430 RWH the cams fell over at 7400 rpm in the last motor but the new heads have had a lot more work done to them and flow better. The Cammer is oversquare will have a lighter rotating mass and better flowing heads so the dyno will tell the story. I will rev the engine to the point when the cams stop making power hopefully past my wish list shift point 7500rpm.

The Cammer uses the exact same heads as the Ford GT, they don't flow as much as the Coyote stock but that engine is in another power level to the Cammer, it has about 350hp wheel, Coyote is right around 400hp...with variable valve timing, Cammer has it also but it wont work with the stock computer...

[fordracing65]

What intake are you going to use, the T-50 Cammer which I'm sure you have uses a magnesium intake, the R-50 Cammer is the intake you would want to use but it won't fit under stock hood and goes for around 6 grand, the Cammer was offered in the Ford catalog for $15,000 which is probably why they only sold 5, yes a total of 5 motors, the car you have pictured the Ford Daytona uses the R-50 Cammer which sold for $30,000 without computer, that's right 400hp for 30g,

[LJ47]

Eschaider
Tried to get a crank out of Winberg great product but they would not answer the phone even after leaving messages with Randy they even didn't return my emails so I moved on.

[LJ47]

Eschaider
How long did you wait for your Winberg crank after you orded it.

[LJ47]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

What intake are you going to use, the T-50 Cammer which I'm sure you have uses a magnesium intake, the R-50 Cammer is the intake you would want to use but it won't fit under stock hood and goes for around 6 grand, the Cammer was offered in the Ford catalog for $15,000 which is probably why they only sold 5, yes a total of 5 motors, the car you have pictured the Ford Daytona uses the R-50 Cammer which sold for $30,000 without computer, that's right 400hp for 30g,

Hi Fordracing65
The induction I am using is carried over from my 5.4L modular.


Not realy fussed on how many crate Cammer motors Ford sold.
Regarding 400hp for 30g in the Ford Daytona they have to run under FIA rules which restrict power outputs and have to be tuff enough to last a 24hr race not bad for 30g in my book.
My engine is not restricted by rules so we can port heads, fit larger valves, etc. Been down the path of buliding a production engine for racing before that's why I have gone down the path of race proven products this time.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by LJ47

Eschaider
Tried to get a crank out of Winberg great product but they would not answer the phone even after leaving messages with Randy they even didn't return my emails so I moved on.

Originally Posted by LJ47

Eschaider
How long did you wait for your Winberg crank after you orded it.

Because I changed the length of the crank (and therefore all their setups down the production line) they could not build it during the regular season. Randy told me he would do it after the World Finals. I think the total time was 12 weeks from start to finish (maybe a little less).

If I did not change the crank length it could have been done on the regular production line and before the World Finals. Winberg does a huge portion of the blown fuel cranks, Bryant is the other dominant supplier for the fuel guys. When I originally contacted the two companies Bryant could not free the time for a custom like I requested. Randy said he could but also said it would have to be after the race season ended. When I originally ordered, I was OK with the timing because of the custom options I had requested.

Your experience was different than mine. Winberg also does cup cranks and Randy is frequently at the races with both the cup racers and drag racers so catching him can be dicey on occasion during race season. He was always responsive to both my calls and emails and most importantly (to me) easy to work with. Without a response from a vendor I would have done the same thing you did - although I would have chosen an actual billet crank manufacturer rather than a retailer.

I don't know if you already have your crank or not but if you don't they (Winberg) usually list an inventory of finished and semi-finished cranks that can be had on short notice because someone walked away from the crank once production had begun. You can usually find some pretty interesting features like non-standard rod journals, special surface treatments etc, frequently at a discounted price.


Ed

[LJ47]

Update on my crank supply been told after 28 weeks the supplier unknown can not deliver the crank
Modmax are looking to fill the order with another supplier.
They are Crower, Bryant Racing, Scat, Winberg, Callies and some more unlisted.
Also have found a supplier in Victoria that can make the crank out of better material than the US steel and all the goodies I am looking for out of my crank.
Lead time the same as the US suppliers the difference is price but the advantage is they live down the road not the other side of the world.
Anyway when I started this journey I didn't think ordering a racing crank that was wet sumped , knife edged, lightened and made out of a high grade billet steel would be so hard.
Anyone feel free to comment.