What are my engine choices

[Rog246]

Don't forget, that you will improve your exhaust emissions using E85 as well, DO NOT discount this. If your tuner is worth his salt, he'll be able to set it up so it will accept several tunes using a hand help/laptop tuner, so you can switch between then tunes

[d488y2]

Originally Posted by Rog246

Don't forget, that you will improve your exhaust emissions using E85 as well, DO NOT discount this. If your tuner is worth his salt, he'll be able to set it up so it will accept several tunes using a hand help/laptop tuner, so you can switch between then tunes

My engineer has advised not to use E85 when going for a IM240 test.
He said the E85 messes up the test equipment.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by d488y2

My engineer has advised not to use E85 when going for a IM240 test.
He said the E85 messes up the test equipment.

How could it do that?

Alcohol (ethanol) has a lower calorific value, so more of it is required to produce a given amount of heat. It has a slower flame speed and a colder flame but it's products of combustion will not effect test equipment.

[Gav]

I rekon you have it covered Dave!
There is a huge difference in tuning for power versus emissions.
The ability for an engine to pass emmissions comes down to more than the intake, head design is a huge factor and I'd say Mr Damage will have a trick set of CNC'd heads on his, along with some pretty snazzy pistons, rings and cats to help what is a 50year old design comply with modern requirements.
Getting a cammer to pass emissions is a pretty cool result in my book.

[DaveW]

I forgot to mention the cats as well.

[byroncobra]

So, Mr Damage has a youbeaut tune and tricky heads, but without a facility in Qld to perform an IM240 test, how do you prove that the emissions from the cammer are compliant?

[damage]

Originally Posted by byroncobra

So, Mr Damage has a youbeaut tune and tricky heads, but without a facility in Qld to perform an IM240 test, how do you prove that the emissions from the cammer are compliant?

Who says there aren't facilities in QLD capable of performing this test. It is after all just a test sequence performed on a dyno with the required gas analysis equipment.

Anyway now it's up to QLD transport to Prove it doesn't and they only have the ability to do a 4 gas analysis road side and it will pass that with flying colours regardless what tune I dial into it.

A 1965 engine is hardly a 1965 engine when it no longer has carbs and now has electronic ignition EFI and huge CATS.

Unless I'm mistaken all modern engines are a basic derivative of engines that are donkeys old LS chevs windors clevelands all made pre 70's and are the basic engine platform right through to the early mid 2000.

The year the engine was originally manufactured has little regard for its configured and tuned state when compared to a say 1971 falcon engine versus a 2005 TS falcon with last of the 5.8 Windsor based on the same block and reciprocating assembly.

[kyleb]

[quote=damage;1334042]Who says there aren't facilities in QLD capable of performing this test. It is after all just a test sequence performed on a dyno with the required gas analysis equipment.

I could be mistaken but I believe QLD transport do..

This is from QLD Transport and main roads:
Vehicle Standards Instruction (light vehicle 20.2)

This exemption from the requirement to conduct an IM240 test has been issued considering the present absence of suitable test facilities across Queensland. TMR intends to review this exemption and consider mandating the IM240 test once suitable test facilities are established in Queensland to provide access and choice to consumers across the whole state. No date has been set for this review, however TMR will continue to monitor the situation.

Damage
Just a little research would help your case !!
And the rest... Geez, where to start.

[Gav]

Unless I'm mistaken all modern engines are a basic derivative of engines that are donkeys old LS chevs windors clevelands all made pre 70's and are the basic engine platform right through to the early mid 2000.

Yeah well the modern motors have 8 cylinders like the early motors but that is about it.

BTW, LS motors where designed and built in the 90's.

[Marlox]

Im starting to get a little lost on this thread. Just so im on the right track, it started as advice on engine choice which then turned into a bit of ford v chev entertainment and now it's questioning the ability to have emmisions complied with someone that has obviously done so? Am I close?

[byroncobra]

Who says there aren't facilities in QLD capable of performing this test. It is after all just a test sequence performed on a dyno with the required gas analysis equipment.

As Kyleb confirms, there is certainly no test facility for an IM240 test in QLD.
My understanding is that the onus is on the applicant to prove ADR 37/01 compliance using documentary evidence (generally that the engine is post 1990 in QLD) or failing that provide an IM240 test.

Anyway now it's up to QLD transport to Prove it doesn't and they only have the ability to do a 4 gas analysis road side and it will pass that with flying colours regardless what tune I dial into it.

Sure a 4 gas will pass no worries, but Qld Transport won't accept this as a substitute for an IM240 as far as I know.

A 1965 engine is hardly a 1965 engine when it no longer has carbs and now has electronic ignition EFI and huge CATS.

Unless I'm mistaken all modern engines are a basic derivative of engines that are donkeys old LS chevs windors clevelands all made pre 70's and are the basic engine platform right through to the early mid 2000.

The year the engine was originally manufactured has little regard for its configured and tuned state when compared to a say 1971 falcon engine versus a 2005 TS falcon with last of the 5.8 Windsor based on the same block and reciprocating assembly.

I wholeheartedly agree....however, unfortunately logic doesn't seem to be considered when complying engines.

So again sir, how did you prove emissions compliance?

[damage]

Originally Posted by byroncobra

So again sir, how did you prove emissions compliance?

Spent good money on good engineers and did what they said.

[byroncobra]

Ok, I give up playing ducks n drakes............

[T.L.]

I run a supercharged LS3 in my cobra. The engine is bog standard, haven't opened it up to change anything. Thing has 417kW at the wheels and goes along very nicely.

I don't really care about it not being a ford motor, sure, if it was a $1million car it would have to have a Ford motor in there, but its a plastic cobra and I have put the best available bits at the time into it, just like I am doing with my current project, a T/D V8 into an Landcruiser 80 series chassis with a couple of 40 series bodies welded together running through Nissan Patrol diffs. Again, got the best bits available at the time, don't care that I'm running nissan parts they are tough as.

I enjoy my car and I enjoyed the process of watching it all come together and like looking at it in the shed when I'm not driving it.

[kyleb]

Originally Posted by Marlox

Im starting to get a little lost on this thread. Just so im on the right track, it started as advice on engine choice which then turned into a bit of ford v chev entertainment and now it's questioning the ability to have emmisions complied with someone that has obviously done so? Am I close?

Not that simple..
Sorry.. This is gonna take a while !!
The poster wanted engine choices for a build.
It has been said 'there are many choices' of multiple makes being up to the builder and the regs in that state.
Damage has said he got a cammer through emissions testing.. Great, well done, awesome outcome. (Personally, love that engine)
Other new builders see this and think 'gold' I will stick something like this in my car. Then to find out that they can't register said car in their state due to the fact that they are not in QLD and requirements in their state are more stringent.
It's not only QLD builders looking for advice here.
Damage is in QLD where it turns out they are exempt from what is a reasonably difficult emissions test to pass due to the fact that they don't have a suitable test facility...Yet !!
Those in other states are not so lucky in that regard and we are talking full rego here not club.
I'm more than happy to be corrected here because I personally feel that us (ICV) being such a relatively small piece of the automotive pie and having to comply with all this is rubbish.
But unfortunately we do have to comply to varying degrees as we've now established.
So this now limits choices for some does it not ??
Unless you have unlimited funds to develop your engine and get it through then you only have choices from manufacturers that have done this previously..
Engines manufacturers from the 80s onwards had to develop new engine lines with emissions in mind did they not ?
So, let's use my build (In VIC) as an example shall we.
When I started the build I had a big block ford to go in it.. Nice !!
Went to the Engineer and he says 'not a chance'. Bugger!! Now what..
Look at 4.6 or 5.4, not gonna fit due dimensions which meant major surgery. Don't wanna do that.
F.I Windsor.. Cool, again engineer says not likely.. Dammitt !!
Now what ??
Talk to people who know a crap load more than me and have 'actual' runs on the board... Richard Bendell, some here may know him I suspect.
He says 'stick an LS in it and you will get through'
Well, to make a long story longer.. I took his advice.
When I had to pass emissions the limits were more stringent at that time.
It just passed !! Nearly failed on the deceleration..
That was with the help of my father in law who by the way worked as a testing officer for the EPA vehicle testing in Vic for 20yrs. He helped get the Robnells certified in the day so he knows a thing or two.
So... What are the choices?? Whatever gets you registered in your state (talk to your engineer from the start) and puts the biggest smile on your face whilst driving your newly registered beast !!
Apologies for the long post guys...

[deano59]

I would have preferred ford power but bang for buck and getting cars passed here in sa the ls engine is hard to beat .and once the bonnet is shut the average joe blow wont know or give a dam whats powering it as long as it has 8 cyl or more .