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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2003, 04:51 AM
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Default Temec or T5

Ok fellas...Here are the variables:

I have a jag diff 3.31 (powerlok)
I am building a 392 stroker (say 450HP)
Rear wheels are 15" and tyres are 295/50/15

I have a SVO 7003A T5 (2.95, 1.94, 1.34, 1.00, .63) brand new which I was going to put behind a 302W.

Here's the question:

Money aside, do I invest in the g-force T5 kit or do I purchase a new Tremec and offload the 7003A T5?.

Which box would give the better usable ratio's?.

If the g-force is selected, whats the best 5th ratio?

For our american friends, the speed limit in Oz is 100KPH....ie 60MPH

I notice from searches that many with tremecs either run out of first or dont have a useable 5th gear unless going like hell.

BUT...many folks have the Tremec and I'm eager to find out why this is so as opposed to using the G-force?..am I missing something?

I am also considering changing the rear end ratio to say a 3.5X.

Pro's and Cons?
advice?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2003, 06:01 AM
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Rebel 1,

Strictly my opinion but my first build was a 302 with approximately 335 hp, a T-5 with 3.23 gears.

I found that the gearing was far too high to truly enjoy. Also, I found the T-5 to be weak when driving it hard. I changed out my rear gears to 3.73 and I believe that was a near perfect combination for the 302. I trashed my T-5 after 6 runs at the drag strip. I would recommend beefing up the "New" T-5 or going to a stronger transmission. If you are producing 450 HP you may not make it very far after putting your foot in the throtle with the T-5. A Tremic TKO might be your best bet.

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Old 09-29-2003, 07:08 AM
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Money aside, I'd go for the G-Force T5 over the Tremec. Mike @ G-Force will make it exactly how you want it. You want specific ratios? Just ask!

Money an issue? I'd sell the new T5 and put it towards importing your own Tremec. It'd end up cheaper than the voerall cost of the modded T5, but a Tremec will never shift as nicely as the GF T5.

But then again, you can't break ANY gearbox until you've finished that car!!! Get to it!
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Old 09-29-2003, 03:42 PM
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Talking tremec s shift nice.

Jez Lez at your age i thought you would want an auto like craig them you dont have to worry about shifting with a clutch.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2003, 03:53 PM
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Default check out these tremecs....

Rebel1 You may want to check out x2cmotorsports.com they have a pretty stout tremec!
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Old 09-29-2003, 05:08 PM
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What are you saying Scott - that I'm driving an old man's car because I have an auto ?!?

I like to think of it more as a 2 speed sequential, clutchless transmission...
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2003, 05:14 PM
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Rebel1,

Have you thought about a Tremec with the alternative 5th gear ratio (.82). I'm currently running a Tremec 3550 Road Race w/.82 gear ratio and it's a very nice cruiser in 5th. I have a 3.25 rear diff.

If you're looking to be drag racing and you're going to be changing the diff to a numerically higher gear, then I would consider the .63, otherwise the road noise may get to you.

I've did some quick calculations:

295/50-15 gives me a tire diameter of 26.6

Top line is rpm, followed by speed in gear 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

with the T-5.
1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000
7.67 11.50 15.34 19.17 23.00 26.84 30.67 34.51 38.34 42.17 46.01
11.66 17.49 23.32 29.15 34.98 40.81 46.64 52.47 58.30 64.13 69.96
16.88 25.32 33.76 42.20 50.64 59.08 67.52 75.96 84.41 92.85 101.29
22.62 33.93 45.24 56.55 67.86 79.17 90.48 101.79 113.10 124.41 135.72
35.91 53.86 71.81 89.76 107.72 125.67 143.62 161.58 179.53 197.48 215.43

with the 3550 Road Race with .82 gear
1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000
7.31 10.97 14.63 18.29 21.94 25.60 29.26 32.92 36.57 40.23 43.89
12.08 18.12 24.16 30.20 36.24 42.28 48.32 54.36 60.40 66.44 72.48
17.85 26.78 35.70 44.63 53.55 62.48 71.40 80.33 89.25 98.18 107.10
23.92 35.88 47.84 59.80 71.76 83.72 95.68 107.64 119.60 131.55 143.51
29.17 43.75 58.34 72.92 87.51 102.09 116.68 131.26 145.85 160.43 175.02

Sorry, but it didn't paste in very well.

Samurai
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2003, 05:15 PM
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Oi Scott, What you on about heh? At my age nuffin is automatic... :3DSMILE

And..just you remember mate..one of these days the thing's gonna live at your place for a while.
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Old 09-29-2003, 05:44 PM
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Samurai...Thanks for the calculations. My car will be a street machine ..no track work.

I wasn't aware there was a .82 overdrive gear available. That sure makes all the difference.

How useable is your first gear?
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Old 09-29-2003, 06:01 PM
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Rebel-
The trans with the .82 overdrive is the Tremec TKO II. In addition to having the better over drive ratio, it is also the strongest of the Tremec's and is rated to 475 ft/lbs of torque. I have it in my car with a 3.31 rear. I haven't driven more than 50 miles yet, but I do like it. 5th is a nice cruiser and 1st is still very usable. If you are thinking about a Tremec, you should definetely take a look at it.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2003, 06:17 PM
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Chaplin...exactly the advice I was looking for....thanks loads.

I want both a useable first gear and a nice cruising gear.

I find it silly that we have 5 speed transmissions yet some folks put up with a first thats over in a heartbeat, or a fifth that causes the engine to fall off the cam.
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Old 09-29-2003, 06:23 PM
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Depends on what you really want from your car once you start driving it. Sports car, or race car?

This conversation/debate/decision started with me in '97. Spoke to Liberty Racing Transmissions who sold both the T5Z, and Tremec who posed the same question to me.

The Tremec was a godsend to Mustang owners in the mid '80's who were breaking their T5's left and right. The factory T5's were only rated for 260 fp/tq to begin with. Stock 302's could do better than that. No wonder they were breaking.

The tall gearing on the Tremec 1st matched the T5's (~3.35), and Mustangs had 2.74 rear gears. Mustangs also weigh 3400 pounds compared to your Cobras' 2200 - 2400 pounds.

The close ratio (2.95 first) T5Z was never installed in any production car, so new is the only way you can get one. Liberty believed I would be happier with the T5Z for street use, even spirited street use, and an occasional 1/4 mile run.

I listened, installed the T5Z, and am exquisedly happy with it. Liberty blueprinted the trans for me, and installed the .80 5 th gear. Filled with Mobil synthetic ATF, the trans shifts like a Honda, and is a joy to drive.

Liberty explained, the T5's weak link is the shifter forks. When these things bend during power shifting, the trans blows. Solution is use a positive stop shifter. Mine is a Hurst.

What you have working in your favor is a light car with street tires. The tires start spinning before you can put enough torque through the trans to damage it.

My current motor is stock displacement, but aftermarket everything else 351W. Like you, am seriously contemplating a 393 stroker upgrade. If it looks like I'm going to lunch the T5Z, I'll ship it off to G-Force for a gearset upgrade. I'll also upgrade the diff to a Powertrax or Eaton with 31 spline axles.

If you're going to be screeching the car at every traffic light, two things will likely happen. First, you'll spend far more money on lawyers and court costs defending your drivers license, than rebuilding your transmission. Second, you'll be replacing transmissions and other parts regardless of which trans you choose.

My recommendation for a mostly spirited street use car would be the T5Z with the 2.95 first, and .80 fifth. If you're bucks up, get the G-Force upgrade now. If not, there are other priorities that need dealing with.

Priority 1: Cooling system. The works here. Aluminum or brass oversize radiator, high flow water pump, high flow electric fan.

Priority 2: Suspension and brakes. Coil overs, tubular control arms, the biggest brakes that will fit in the wheel.

Priority 3: Wheels and tires. May we distract you from your 15" wheels and tires to consider 17'ers instead? Honestly! Drive the two side by side, and you won't believe the difference. It's not the same car! With 17" "Z" rated tires, you can use all the performance your 393 motor will give you.

Anyway, that's my suggestion. Food for thought.

Last edited by Jack21; 09-29-2003 at 06:35 PM..
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2003, 04:30 AM
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Heyy jack21..Thanks also for the advice

Re the T5 info....The 7003A box is the same ratios as the T5Z. The g-force mods seem to be the way to improve the power handling ability and still have a nice changing box.

Hopefully, the 2.95 first and a .73 or .8 overdrive will work.....specially with the 3.55 diff.
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Old 09-30-2003, 08:34 AM
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Screw the five speed. If you are not going conventional, go t56!!

Just a thought.
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Old 09-30-2003, 01:24 PM
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My first gear is very usable, though I do shift into second at around 15mph.

By the way, I have Tremec II which is basically a 3550 with the .82 overdrive. It is not a TKO. I believe the model # I was given was 3555 Road Race.

They originally only offered this option in the TKO but they do offer it in the regular 3550 in the US.

I'm not sure what combinations they offer down there.

Samurai
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Old 09-30-2003, 05:43 PM
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"Liberty explained, the T5's weak link is the shifter forks. When these things bend during power shifting, the trans blows. Solution is use a positive stop shifter. Mine is a Hurst."

I had a Hurst and a T5Z and I still broke third gear on a road course without powershifting. The T5 is fine if you never, never, never plan to run it hard. It may last longer in a Cobra due to less weight but it will break.

I say at least upgrade to a3550 in you have a mild to wild Normally asperated small block(under 360c.i.) If you run a power adder, stroker or a big block get the TKO.

If you are thinking T-56 forget it. It is not any stronger than a 3550 and it has more gears to break. Ask Jim Pomroy about a T56 behind a supercharged 351. He broke it.
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Old 09-30-2003, 06:39 PM
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Default NO COMMENTS??

I suggested this tranny earlier in the post but no one seemed to acknowledge it. This is simply the best Temec you can buy so why bother with the rest? Once again the ERB adress is:
X2CMOTORSPORTS.COM

here is their description:

X2C Motorsports is proud to release its new line of transmissions, we have spent over 10 years testing and building these to bring you the finest Drag/Street transmissions available. These are brand new units made by Tremec that have been dis-assembled and turned into our V1.0, V2.0 or V2.0R.

The V1.0 is recommended for vehicles running 9.90 ET and slower with 1.35 60ft at up to 140mph trap speed. * These transmissions were tested in a car making 1000 hp that weighed 3300 lbs with driver

There you have it! Throw one of these bad boys in there and be done with it!
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Last edited by MAXVELO; 09-30-2003 at 06:42 PM..
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Old 09-30-2003, 06:47 PM
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Ask Bob his opinion.
http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/
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Old 09-30-2003, 08:05 PM
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Default Bob?

The Website you posted HANLONMOTORSPORTS.COM claims

"HOME OF THE FASTEST TREMEC EQUIPPED 5.0" @9:15/152mph

while the one at X2CMOTORSPORTS.COM claims
"HOME OF THE 8 SECOND TREMEC EQUIPPED STREET DRIVEN MUSTANGS"

Im sure one is no better than the other. I can say the X2C tranny is all brand new and not rebuilt. It sound like HANLON rebuilds them. I guess it really comes down to is price and how well they back their product.

do you know what he asks(Hanlon) for one of his units?


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Old 09-30-2003, 08:50 PM
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Maxvelo,
I agree that both venders mentioned appear to be excellent sources.
If you remember the original post asked the question which to use. The T5 or Tremec?
I posted Hanlon for the simple fact that they rebuid T5s and Tremecs for alot of Customers for a lot of different applications.
He also sells new units and will modify them to each Customers needs.
It seems that based on those facts that they would be more than qualified to make an honest assessment of the pros and cons of each different model of trans mentioned.
I do not know Bob Hanlon personally, but can tell you that he is well respected in the NHRA circle and by TTC Corporation.
I have no idea on his pricing structure, as I did not purchase my TKO and it did not come from him.
I can tell you though, that it looks like he will be massaging my TKO over the Winter to remove some of the notchey shifting present and to install one of his Pro 5.0 Shifters.
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