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09-29-2003, 04:51 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane Australia,
QLD
Cobra Make, Engine: RMC under re-construction, GenIV with tremec 600, Jag 3.31 L/S diff
Posts: 3,318
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Not Ranked
Temec or T5
Ok fellas...Here are the variables:
I have a jag diff 3.31 (powerlok)
I am building a 392 stroker (say 450HP)
Rear wheels are 15" and tyres are 295/50/15
I have a SVO 7003A T5 (2.95, 1.94, 1.34, 1.00, .63) brand new which I was going to put behind a 302W.
Here's the question:
Money aside, do I invest in the g-force T5 kit or do I purchase a new Tremec and offload the 7003A T5?.
Which box would give the better usable ratio's?.
If the g-force is selected, whats the best 5th ratio?
For our american friends, the speed limit in Oz is 100KPH....ie 60MPH
I notice from searches that many with tremecs either run out of first or dont have a useable 5th gear unless going like hell.
BUT...many folks have the Tremec and I'm eager to find out why this is so as opposed to using the G-force?..am I missing something?
I am also considering changing the rear end ratio to say a 3.5X.
Pro's and Cons?
advice?
__________________
It's impossible to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.
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09-29-2003, 06:01 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Broken Arrow. OK ( South Tulsa), USA,
OK
Cobra Make, Engine: 66 COBRA FE 427 /4SP. (HCS Coupe w/ 408 Stroker and TKO 600 -sold)
Posts: 5,595
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Not Ranked
Rebel 1,
Strictly my opinion but my first build was a 302 with approximately 335 hp, a T-5 with 3.23 gears.
I found that the gearing was far too high to truly enjoy. Also, I found the T-5 to be weak when driving it hard. I changed out my rear gears to 3.73 and I believe that was a near perfect combination for the 302. I trashed my T-5 after 6 runs at the drag strip. I would recommend beefing up the "New" T-5 or going to a stronger transmission. If you are producing 450 HP you may not make it very far after putting your foot in the throtle with the T-5. A Tremic TKO might be your best bet.
Clois
__________________
Sunshine, Asphalt and no stop signs...Perfect
"Let's roll"
"Be part of Something Good
......Leave Something Good Behind!"
from CD "Long Road Out of Eden"
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09-29-2003, 07:08 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Brisbane, Australia,
Q
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary CCX3117 427FE
Posts: 4,381
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Not Ranked
Money aside, I'd go for the G-Force T5 over the Tremec. Mike @ G-Force will make it exactly how you want it. You want specific ratios? Just ask!
Money an issue? I'd sell the new T5 and put it towards importing your own Tremec. It'd end up cheaper than the voerall cost of the modded T5, but a Tremec will never shift as nicely as the GF T5.
But then again, you can't break ANY gearbox until you've finished that car!!! Get to it!
__________________
Craig
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09-29-2003, 03:42 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brisbane Australia,
Qld
Cobra Make, Engine: Now built a race cobra.
Posts: 433
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Not Ranked
tremec s shift nice.
Jez Lez at your age i thought you would want an auto like craig them you dont have to worry about shifting with a clutch.
.
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09-29-2003, 03:53 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: ALBUQUERQUE,
NM
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast Cobra weber fuel injected 557 C.I.. 800H.P 760LBS. TQ. Magnum T56
Posts: 330
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Not Ranked
check out these tremecs....
Rebel1 You may want to check out x2cmotorsports.com they have a pretty stout tremec!
__________________
WHEN YOU HAVE MORE HORSEPOWER THAN YOU NEED ITS STILL NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!
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09-29-2003, 05:08 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Brisbane, Australia,
Q
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary CCX3117 427FE
Posts: 4,381
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Not Ranked
What are you saying Scott - that I'm driving an old man's car because I have an auto ?!?
I like to think of it more as a 2 speed sequential, clutchless transmission...
__________________
Craig
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09-29-2003, 05:14 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Alta Loma,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: Robnell, 351W, Tremec 3555 Road Race
Posts: 111
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Not Ranked
Rebel1,
Have you thought about a Tremec with the alternative 5th gear ratio (.82). I'm currently running a Tremec 3550 Road Race w/.82 gear ratio and it's a very nice cruiser in 5th. I have a 3.25 rear diff.
If you're looking to be drag racing and you're going to be changing the diff to a numerically higher gear, then I would consider the .63, otherwise the road noise may get to you.
I've did some quick calculations:
295/50-15 gives me a tire diameter of 26.6
Top line is rpm, followed by speed in gear 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
with the T-5.
1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000
7.67 11.50 15.34 19.17 23.00 26.84 30.67 34.51 38.34 42.17 46.01
11.66 17.49 23.32 29.15 34.98 40.81 46.64 52.47 58.30 64.13 69.96
16.88 25.32 33.76 42.20 50.64 59.08 67.52 75.96 84.41 92.85 101.29
22.62 33.93 45.24 56.55 67.86 79.17 90.48 101.79 113.10 124.41 135.72
35.91 53.86 71.81 89.76 107.72 125.67 143.62 161.58 179.53 197.48 215.43
with the 3550 Road Race with .82 gear
1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000
7.31 10.97 14.63 18.29 21.94 25.60 29.26 32.92 36.57 40.23 43.89
12.08 18.12 24.16 30.20 36.24 42.28 48.32 54.36 60.40 66.44 72.48
17.85 26.78 35.70 44.63 53.55 62.48 71.40 80.33 89.25 98.18 107.10
23.92 35.88 47.84 59.80 71.76 83.72 95.68 107.64 119.60 131.55 143.51
29.17 43.75 58.34 72.92 87.51 102.09 116.68 131.26 145.85 160.43 175.02
Sorry, but it didn't paste in very well.
Samurai
__________________
I'm a racer...at least that what I keep telling my self at night when the lights out, the engine is cold and the wax is calling my name...
I've learned the line is an ellusive thing, easily shown, but rarely remembered.
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09-29-2003, 05:15 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane Australia,
QLD
Cobra Make, Engine: RMC under re-construction, GenIV with tremec 600, Jag 3.31 L/S diff
Posts: 3,318
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Not Ranked
Oi Scott, What you on about heh? At my age nuffin is automatic... :3DSMILE
And..just you remember mate..one of these days the thing's gonna live at your place for a while.
__________________
It's impossible to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.
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09-29-2003, 05:44 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane Australia,
QLD
Cobra Make, Engine: RMC under re-construction, GenIV with tremec 600, Jag 3.31 L/S diff
Posts: 3,318
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Not Ranked
Samurai...Thanks for the calculations. My car will be a street machine ..no track work.
I wasn't aware there was a .82 overdrive gear available. That sure makes all the difference.
How useable is your first gear?
__________________
It's impossible to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.
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09-29-2003, 06:01 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: God's country,
ME
Cobra Make, Engine: Original ERA 427sc, Powered by Gessford
Posts: 2,678
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Not Ranked
Rebel-
The trans with the .82 overdrive is the Tremec TKO II. In addition to having the better over drive ratio, it is also the strongest of the Tremec's and is rated to 475 ft/lbs of torque. I have it in my car with a 3.31 rear. I haven't driven more than 50 miles yet, but I do like it. 5th is a nice cruiser and 1st is still very usable. If you are thinking about a Tremec, you should definetely take a look at it.
__________________
Replica is not a dirty word.
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning."
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09-29-2003, 06:17 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane Australia,
QLD
Cobra Make, Engine: RMC under re-construction, GenIV with tremec 600, Jag 3.31 L/S diff
Posts: 3,318
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Not Ranked
Chaplin...exactly the advice I was looking for....thanks loads.
I want both a useable first gear and a nice cruising gear.
I find it silly that we have 5 speed transmissions yet some folks put up with a first thats over in a heartbeat, or a fifth that causes the engine to fall off the cam.
__________________
It's impossible to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.
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09-29-2003, 06:23 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Washington DC Metro (Virginia),
VA
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadsters, Tweaked 351W, T-5Z, CRII Tech Support Team.
Posts: 1,895
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Not Ranked
Depends on what you really want from your car once you start driving it. Sports car, or race car?
This conversation/debate/decision started with me in '97. Spoke to Liberty Racing Transmissions who sold both the T5Z, and Tremec who posed the same question to me.
The Tremec was a godsend to Mustang owners in the mid '80's who were breaking their T5's left and right. The factory T5's were only rated for 260 fp/tq to begin with. Stock 302's could do better than that. No wonder they were breaking.
The tall gearing on the Tremec 1st matched the T5's (~3.35), and Mustangs had 2.74 rear gears. Mustangs also weigh 3400 pounds compared to your Cobras' 2200 - 2400 pounds.
The close ratio (2.95 first) T5Z was never installed in any production car, so new is the only way you can get one. Liberty believed I would be happier with the T5Z for street use, even spirited street use, and an occasional 1/4 mile run.
I listened, installed the T5Z, and am exquisedly happy with it. Liberty blueprinted the trans for me, and installed the .80 5 th gear. Filled with Mobil synthetic ATF, the trans shifts like a Honda, and is a joy to drive.
Liberty explained, the T5's weak link is the shifter forks. When these things bend during power shifting, the trans blows. Solution is use a positive stop shifter. Mine is a Hurst.
What you have working in your favor is a light car with street tires. The tires start spinning before you can put enough torque through the trans to damage it.
My current motor is stock displacement, but aftermarket everything else 351W. Like you, am seriously contemplating a 393 stroker upgrade. If it looks like I'm going to lunch the T5Z, I'll ship it off to G-Force for a gearset upgrade. I'll also upgrade the diff to a Powertrax or Eaton with 31 spline axles.
If you're going to be screeching the car at every traffic light, two things will likely happen. First, you'll spend far more money on lawyers and court costs defending your drivers license, than rebuilding your transmission. Second, you'll be replacing transmissions and other parts regardless of which trans you choose.
My recommendation for a mostly spirited street use car would be the T5Z with the 2.95 first, and .80 fifth. If you're bucks up, get the G-Force upgrade now. If not, there are other priorities that need dealing with.
Priority 1: Cooling system. The works here. Aluminum or brass oversize radiator, high flow water pump, high flow electric fan.
Priority 2: Suspension and brakes. Coil overs, tubular control arms, the biggest brakes that will fit in the wheel.
Priority 3: Wheels and tires. May we distract you from your 15" wheels and tires to consider 17'ers instead? Honestly! Drive the two side by side, and you won't believe the difference. It's not the same car! With 17" "Z" rated tires, you can use all the performance your 393 motor will give you.
Anyway, that's my suggestion. Food for thought.
Last edited by Jack21; 09-29-2003 at 06:35 PM..
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09-30-2003, 04:30 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane Australia,
QLD
Cobra Make, Engine: RMC under re-construction, GenIV with tremec 600, Jag 3.31 L/S diff
Posts: 3,318
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Not Ranked
Heyy jack21..Thanks also for the advice
Re the T5 info....The 7003A box is the same ratios as the T5Z. The g-force mods seem to be the way to improve the power handling ability and still have a nice changing box.
Hopefully, the 2.95 first and a .73 or .8 overdrive will work.....specially with the 3.55 diff.
__________________
It's impossible to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.
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09-30-2003, 08:34 AM
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Member of the north
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Join Date: May 2003
Cobra Make, Engine: A Cobra
Posts: 11,207
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Not Ranked
Screw the five speed. If you are not going conventional, go t56!!
Just a thought.
__________________
I'm a writer, feed the artist and buy a book.
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09-30-2003, 01:24 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Alta Loma,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: Robnell, 351W, Tremec 3555 Road Race
Posts: 111
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Not Ranked
My first gear is very usable, though I do shift into second at around 15mph.
By the way, I have Tremec II which is basically a 3550 with the .82 overdrive. It is not a TKO. I believe the model # I was given was 3555 Road Race.
They originally only offered this option in the TKO but they do offer it in the regular 3550 in the US.
I'm not sure what combinations they offer down there.
Samurai
__________________
I'm a racer...at least that what I keep telling my self at night when the lights out, the engine is cold and the wax is calling my name...
I've learned the line is an ellusive thing, easily shown, but rarely remembered.
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09-30-2003, 05:43 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Pace, Florida, U.S.A.,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: Hunter 427, 5.0 (302)
Posts: 966
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Not Ranked
"Liberty explained, the T5's weak link is the shifter forks. When these things bend during power shifting, the trans blows. Solution is use a positive stop shifter. Mine is a Hurst."
I had a Hurst and a T5Z and I still broke third gear on a road course without powershifting. The T5 is fine if you never, never, never plan to run it hard. It may last longer in a Cobra due to less weight but it will break.
I say at least upgrade to a3550 in you have a mild to wild Normally asperated small block(under 360c.i.) If you run a power adder, stroker or a big block get the TKO.
If you are thinking T-56 forget it. It is not any stronger than a 3550 and it has more gears to break. Ask Jim Pomroy about a T56 behind a supercharged 351. He broke it.
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09-30-2003, 06:39 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: ALBUQUERQUE,
NM
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast Cobra weber fuel injected 557 C.I.. 800H.P 760LBS. TQ. Magnum T56
Posts: 330
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Not Ranked
NO COMMENTS??
I suggested this tranny earlier in the post but no one seemed to acknowledge it. This is simply the best Temec you can buy so why bother with the rest? Once again the ERB adress is:
X2CMOTORSPORTS.COM
here is their description:
X2C Motorsports is proud to release its new line of transmissions, we have spent over 10 years testing and building these to bring you the finest Drag/Street transmissions available. These are brand new units made by Tremec that have been dis-assembled and turned into our V1.0, V2.0 or V2.0R.
The V1.0 is recommended for vehicles running 9.90 ET and slower with 1.35 60ft at up to 140mph trap speed. * These transmissions were tested in a car making 1000 hp that weighed 3300 lbs with driver
There you have it! Throw one of these bad boys in there and be done with it!
__________________
WHEN YOU HAVE MORE HORSEPOWER THAN YOU NEED ITS STILL NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!
Last edited by MAXVELO; 09-30-2003 at 06:42 PM..
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09-30-2003, 06:47 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kennett Square, PA, USA,
Posts: 201
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Not Ranked
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09-30-2003, 08:05 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: ALBUQUERQUE,
NM
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast Cobra weber fuel injected 557 C.I.. 800H.P 760LBS. TQ. Magnum T56
Posts: 330
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Not Ranked
Bob?
The Website you posted HANLONMOTORSPORTS.COM claims
"HOME OF THE FASTEST TREMEC EQUIPPED 5.0" @9:15/152mph
while the one at X2CMOTORSPORTS.COM claims
"HOME OF THE 8 SECOND TREMEC EQUIPPED STREET DRIVEN MUSTANGS"
Im sure one is no better than the other. I can say the X2C tranny is all brand new and not rebuilt. It sound like HANLON rebuilds them. I guess it really comes down to is price and how well they back their product.
do you know what he asks(Hanlon) for one of his units?
__________________
WHEN YOU HAVE MORE HORSEPOWER THAN YOU NEED ITS STILL NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!
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09-30-2003, 08:50 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kennett Square, PA, USA,
Posts: 201
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Not Ranked
Maxvelo,
I agree that both venders mentioned appear to be excellent sources.
If you remember the original post asked the question which to use. The T5 or Tremec?
I posted Hanlon for the simple fact that they rebuid T5s and Tremecs for alot of Customers for a lot of different applications.
He also sells new units and will modify them to each Customers needs.
It seems that based on those facts that they would be more than qualified to make an honest assessment of the pros and cons of each different model of trans mentioned.
I do not know Bob Hanlon personally, but can tell you that he is well respected in the NHRA circle and by TTC Corporation.
I have no idea on his pricing structure, as I did not purchase my TKO and it did not come from him.
I can tell you though, that it looks like he will be massaging my TKO over the Winter to remove some of the notchey shifting present and to install one of his Pro 5.0 Shifters.
Bud
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